Where Competitive Cheer Stands According to Title IX expert & Attorney

Discussion in 'Discussing the Cheerleading Industry' started by cheersafety, Jun 25, 2010.

  1. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    To elaborate a bit more. I've been a cheerleader and ive been a competitor in this sport. I don't think this sport is cheerleading. It is similar, but this sport doesn't do sidelines or chants on crowds for the support of a team. In fact, this sport is a lot more than cheerleading or cheer. So this sport can be recognized but NOT As cheerleading.

    And if they recognize cheerleading or cheer as a sport JUST to recognize our actual yet unnamed sport (I'm still thinking gymletics) then that seems to be opening a pandoras box. Because cheerleading is a sideline activity right there with the dancers. What we do is NOT a sideline activity. So you can't call it cheer or anything related to the word cheer. What we do is a sport.

    Doesn't that make practical sense?

    And if gymletics (it'll stick I swear) is a sport you can also do any club cheerleading activity, because it wouldn't be a sport.

     
  2. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    And I feel like I keep bagging on cheerleading (the sideline activity, not the as yet unnamed sport). But it is still so important to any sport team or university. I was at a Braves game Friday night and after the game is over there is a fireworks show. To prepare for the show the grounds crew needs about thirty minutes. Well, instead of the Braves having you wait there bored out of your mind they send out two crews of cheerleaders and drum lines. They have a little battle between the two and your side in the crowd pulls on your cheerleaders and drumline. It reminded me how important cheerleaders are to organizations... But how what happens on the competition mat is not cheerleading or cheer. It's just too different.
     
  3. Num1Stunta

    Num1Stunta Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    "Definition of Sport
    The most commonly accepted definition of a sport activity includes all of the following elements:

    • a physical activity that involves propelling a mass through space or overcoming the resistance of a mass

    • a contest or competition against or with an opponent

    • is governed by rules that explicitly define the time, space and purpose of the contest and the conditions under which a winner is declared

    • the acknowledged primary purpose of the competition is a comparison of the relative skills of the participants"

    HOW DOES THAT NOT APPLY TO COMPETITIVE CHEERLEADING?! WTFFFFF... not to mention the photo on the page, jeeez
     
  4. CGAcheer

    CGAcheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    QU does the exact same type of competitive cheer as Maryland does
     
  5. cheersafety

    cheersafety They call me Susie

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    What is modern cheer now is a discipline of gymnastics. I like the name National Competitive Stunt & Tumble Association. I even think the format is great. They isolated the skill sets and still have the 2 and half minutes we are used to. There are statistics. Safety was taken into consideration. Sad part of all of this is I can't imagine how much work it took these coaches to create all this especially without Varsity or any cheer companies help. Now an industry icon testifies against them, it has to feel like a big slap in the face. They are the trailblazers. They are visionaries.

    What about rallying behind these teams to show them how much we love NCSTA(formerly known as cheerleading lol)? Help them prove there are people who only compete and want this to be a sport whether that be in all stars, college or the Olympics.

    This week was a blow to all of us but we can learn from it. Look how passionate everyone is. Let's do something positive with it.
     
  6. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    The problem is you've only named the association, not the sport.

    And why am I big on this name thing and distinction? It's like I said earlier there can't be any chance for confusion. Coaches and choreographers live in bending and testing the rules for our divisions. If they aren't perfectly worded or air tight we exploit the heck out of them. One of my goals is to find at least one blatantly huge grey area every year, for example. IANAL and even I could see people exploiting the name. You called this sport a discipline of gymnastics, which I can see. But is cheerleading a discipline a of gymnastics? You used the word cheer and the sport has no cheering in it, but cheerleading does. So if I'm a cheerleading coach and I could benefit from riding the coattails of the sport even though I just do sidelines I probably would.

    I like pieces of what the ncsta has done. But it's is still not perfect. I am for out sport being an NCAA sport, but truth be told if I had my choice I wouldn't pick the exact ncsta answer. I would make some changes. And if the court case doesn't work out everyone talks as if it's done. It's this moment or our sport will never be recognized. Why wouldn't there be the old "stop whining, roll up your sleeves, fix the issues, and try again?" Remember, Thomas Edison not only discovered the light bulb, but 1000 ways NOT to make a light bulb. Fix the problems, have the best answer, possibly get community support before the whole thing starts, and try again.
     
  7. RockstarCheer

    RockstarCheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    Cheersafety, I'm not sure you saw my post from last night, but after I saw you on the Penn & Teller show the other day, I started to look at your posts. On the TV show, you appear as if you really have it out for Varsity Brands. Just appeared that way on the show, whether it's true or not. I mean, to me, it looked like Jeff Webb or Varsity was the worst thing that's ever happened to this industry according to you. Then after going back and reading your posts, it also seems that way. So, from the posts and the show, It just seems like something is bothering you, or something rubs you the wrong way about Varsity. I mean we are all a product of our past experiences. Did something happen to you in this industry with them?
     
  8. juscheerthatisall

    juscheerthatisall I Fierce Board instead of work/study

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    That article doesnt deny that competitive cheer falls into that category it just says that cheerleading as a whole does not, and there are not enough competition only cheer teams to categorize "cheerleading"as such, I completely agree with kingston, it is really about the name, it would be so much easier to say cheerleading is not a sport but gymletics (really dont like that, lol) is, because he is right the two really dont have much in common, competition only cheerleaders dont even do cheers anymore.
     
  9. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    boo to not liking gymletics, haha.

    heck, im gonna throw this out there and see if this makes any sense. what if when I personally got upset that Jeff Webb said cheerleading isn't a sport... I was wrong. Cheerleading isn't a sport. What we do IS a sport. The problem is we think what we do is cheerleading, but it's not.
     
  10. RockstarCheer

    RockstarCheer When all else fails.... I shimmy

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    Bingo...I agree with that statement..Cheerleading isn't a sport...Sport Cheer, or Competitive Cheer is a sport
     
  11. King

    King Is all about that bass Staff Member

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    Heck, I would be all for calling it CheerSport or Sport Cheer. It is catchier. It would be easier to say what we do isn't cheerleading, its Cheersport.
     
  12. BlueCat

    BlueCat Roses are red, cats are blue National Champion

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    Out of curiosity, what areas of cheer are you considered an "expert" in? What is your background?
     
  13. doubletrouble

    doubletrouble Cheer Stalker

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    Well that's it.... exactly.
     
  14. tumbleyoda

    tumbleyoda Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    I agree King. Dont know all the issues with with rebranding with that name, but it works.
     
  15. lracheers2u

    lracheers2u I'm new. Don't Hurt Me

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    Weird that this article was in a local paper today....lol...

    Three cheers for cheerleading qualifying as a sport


    By Justin Williams
    Staff Writer

    Is cheerleading a sport? Depends on whom you ask.

    Ask the Georgia High School Association, and cheerleading qualifies. How about the cheerleaders themselves? Well, you probably shouldn't even ask.

    Longtime Sports Illustrated columnist Rick Reilly did just that. He nearly didn't make it out alive.

    Reilly, who now works for ESPN, detailed in his 2007 book, Hate Mail From Cheerleaders , that among the hundreds of columns he's written during his career, one stuck out because of the response he received. He received the most hate mail -- by a large margin -- for one in which he claimed that cheerleading is not a sport.

    He now claims to be a convert on that subject after much "convincing."

    However, if you ask the women's volleyball team at Quinnipiac University, cheerleading is absolutely and unequivocally not a sport. Or at least it's not as much of a sport as volleyball.

    You might ask yourself why volleyball players would get in on the argument. The reason is simple: Because the university considers cheerleading to be a sport, and the school's women's volleyball team was dismantled in an effort to cut costs.

    According to a recent ABC News report, the situation boiled down to money and the effect of federal legislation commonly known as Title IX. It costs the Hamden, Conn., university roughly $70,000 per year for a women's volleyball team of 11 players, while the cost is only about $50,000 for a cheerleading team of 40.

    Once it was dismantled last year and replaced with a cheerleading team, the women's volleyball team decided to file suit. The resulting federal trial got underway Monday, and a nation of cheerleaders -- and sports fans in general, to be sure -- are waiting on pins and needles for what is sure to be a controversial decision. That's because it could have a huge effect as legal precedent for future decisions.

    Title IX, enacted in 1972, requires schools to keep a balance between athletic offerings for men and women. It also applies to high schools.

    The GHSA Web site reads as follows on the viability of cheerleading as a sport: "Cheerleading is a state championship sport in each classification for non coed teams and schools are aligned on a regional basis. There is also an open division (all classifications together) for coed competition."

    The organization holds region and state competitions, awarding a state championship for each classification for all-female divisions, plus one championship for all schools in coed, without regard for classification.

    The Oxford English Dictionary defines a sport as "an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc."

    If only Oxford had scrapped the "etc." and given us closure! Notice that volleyball is not listed.

    I believe cheerleading is a sport, certainly so when defined by a dictionary. Plus, my sister might never talk to me again if I said otherwise, though that is not the reason that I'm taking this stance.

    Athleticism, skill, physical prowess and competitiveness might not be clearly evident on the sidelines at a football game, the standard by which many judge cheerleading, but that is far different from competitive cheerleading, with teams performing complex, ridiculously athletic routines.

    Strangely, some consider the validity of a sport to be how often its competitors get injured, speaking to the sport's intensity.

    "Golf isn't a sport," some have said. "Are you going to get hurt playing golf? Watch a real sport, like football."

    If that's the case, cheerleading is definitely a sport. Cheerleaders suffer very serious injuries, at times, even to the point where the sport has had to alter rules to make the sport safer.

    How about cheerleading's comparison to gymnastics? The two share many of the tumbling aspects, with cheerleaders doing somersaults, backflips and similar moves.

    Try saying that the Gym Dogs, the Unive rsity of Georgia's famed gymnastics team, are not part of a real sport. The team has won multiple national championships and often draws larger crowds than the men's basketball team.

    Because of its high-flying, athletic, competitive nature, it's clear to me that cheerleading is a sport. Too bad it's up to a federal court to decide.

    In that case, I just hope that it's not some attorney defending the cheerleading team in the case. I say let the cheerleaders defend themselves.

    They're pretty convincing.