College Why Are Male College Cheerleaders Role Down Played?

[cheerboy31]

Ok, since this is the college cheerleading forum, I take it as though many of you are familiar with or participated in college cheerleading. From the title, i've placed the topic specifically on male college cheerleaders. I myself, am a freshmen in college, and i also cheer. Ive done competitive, high school, and now college, and I just don't feel like college cheerleading is fun....for guys at least. I've noticed that guys are only wanted on a college team for one reason, and that reason is stunting. Why? I thought cheerleading was more than stunting. The point i'm trying to bring to everyone's attention is the issue that is shoved in the dark with no light, and it's the fact that male college cheerleaders, or most, don't dance, jump, or really take part in a cheer. I am passionate about cheerleading I don't think it is right or fair. And most male college cheerleaders come from competitive cheerleading, so what about the guys who have grown up performing every dance, motion, and jump along with the girls, to standing in the back clapping, waiting to toss the cheerleaders in a stunt or basket. Whenever a co-ed team goes to camp, they're separated, "guys to the back, girls to the front!" It's like there is no longer a team of guys and girls anymore. For me, it's the worst feeling ever because for 1) I don't feel like part of a team. 2) The material guys do in college cheer is watered down. And 3) I WANT to DANCE and actually CHEER. Guys are honestly an outcast in college cheer. They stand in the back while the girls actually cheer. For over 120 years, cheerleading has been a sport comprised of DANCE, STUNTS, JUMPS, TUMBLING, and MOTIONS. Yesterday, I told my coach I wanted to dance and she told me, "I don't let my guys dance because the dances are too feminine for them." Who is she to judge if something is not comfortable for me? As a coach, she should push for me to perform every aspect I am good at and get better at ones I am not in my opinion. And also, when has cheerleading not been feminine? Dancing is something that I love to do and having been a competitive cheerleader, that made me angry because in all-star cheer, everyone is equal, there is no such thing as "too feminine." It honestly makes me jealous to see the girls learning the dances, and having to sit it in the back knowing I can do the same dance just as good, if not, better. At cheer clinics, random guys who have never cheered were brought in and taught the basic motions, and spent the majority of time, stunting. Now any normal person would think, to make a college cheer team you'd have to been a part of it before and be very skilled at it. College cheer coaches don't allow males to dance solely on the fact that if they water the guys' role in cheer and make it appear more masculine, they can get all the football team rejects and normal athletic looking guys to come out for the team. Being the mature person I am, I understand why you would do this, but what about the guys who actually enjoy dancing and take cheerleading seriously? I personally don't care if a guy doesn't want to tryout for cheerleading because it is too "feminine" or "girly." Guys have football, basketball, and etc., and for a guy like me, cheerleading is an escape from the typical sports guys play. It's the place I can fully show how creative and talented I am because it welcomes guys who want to perform with open arms. It is also where I feel most comfortable because I prefer to work with girls than guys. And now its being rendered because straight guys don't want to appear gay and coaches want more strength and male athletes. When a girl tries out for football, the coaches don't change the rules for her or attempt to make her involvement fit to a girls standards. She gets roughed up, practices, and treated as any other guy on the team would; It is basically forgotten and not important that she is a female because the sport itself is fit for a males standards. So why is cheerleading so unimportant that it can be rendered for masculine standards? No one seems to care how the athletes feel about this. Its selfish on a coaches behalf to deem a dance for a male cheerleader too feminine from their own opinion. The only person that can say something is uncomfortable is the person doing it. The problem underneath this issue is the insecurity of males and the coaches, which comes from the biggest stereotype of cheer, that all of its male athletes are gay. In result, they are trying to break away from it by breaking down what guys do. And that's just taking away the true aspects of cheerleading. We aren't overcoming any stereotypes by making the males participation more masculine. In actuality, it's submitting to it. Cheerleading is fighting so hard to be considered as and equal among other sports, but cheerleading itself isn't equal when it comes to the male and female athletes that take part in it. Guys should be expected to dance, tumble, jump, and cheer because it is what make up cheerleading. Cheerleading is supposed to be fun, and for guys who come from all-star, standing in the back, clapping, waiting to perform a stunt, rather than fully performing and pulling in the crowd is not. In all-star, we are taught to fight the bullying, stereotypes, and standards of what is masculine. This is an issue that should be brought to many coaches, parents, athletes, and industry representatives' attention. Not all guy cheerleaders want to only stunt and project their voice with the simple, basic motions. I feel that we shouldn't be forced into that stigma that male college cheerleaders are forced to hold in this day. We should have a choice, and that choice starts at walking into those clinics. Guys should know what they are signing up for.

 

[reaxion07]

What school do you go to? If you go to a traditional, UCA style large co-ed school then you will not be expected to dance, jump, or do crazy motions. NCA requires all that stuff (but I've heard guys are not included in the score given for the dance).

To be honest, I'm having a hard time with this - I hate to dance and do complicated motions, but I'm also a 230 pound stunting machine, HAHA. Have you tried talking to your coach in a calm (but earnest) manner? I can definately see why you would be upset, going from high school/allstar to college cheer can cause culture shock.

 

[cheerboy31]

What school do you go to? If you go to a traditional, UCA style large co-ed school then you will not be expected to dance, jump, or do crazy motions. NCA requires all that stuff (but I've heard guys are not included in the score given for the dance).

To be honest, I'm having a hard time with this - I hate to dance and do complicated motions, but I'm also a 230 pound stunting machine, HAHA. Have you tried talking to your coach in a calm (but earnest) manner? I can definately see why you would be upset, going from high school/allstar to college cheer can cause culture shock.

Im go to bossier parish college and we went to NCA camp, and next year im going to a university that also goes to NCA and competes in daytona at NCA nationals. And I honestly did approach the coach in a calm manner, pulling hjer aside and telling her how I felt. Even though we go to NCA, she has unrealistic expectations of the guys on the team, being that it is a community college. And I understand your situation totally, but thats why guys like me arent allowed to dance because of the guys who do, but I think guys should have a choice, and if they did have a choice, we'd have probably more guy cheerleaders than girls because both types of guy cheerleaders would be served and put to their purpose.

 

[reaxion07]

Sounds like your coach may be stuck in the old ways. If she won't listen, maybe you can join an I5 of Lv.6 team at a local gym. I've never really been on a team where guys were straight up not allowed to dance. It's probably your program. Just hang in there, get your stunt on, get your dance on outside of cheer, and hopefully next year the university will work out better for you.

 

[Bruce Villetti]

First off, you have to remember that college cheerleading's main focus and priority is on cheerleading, crowd involvement, sidelines, gameday, university ambassadors, etc... They are not, for the most part, performance teams. Competition only happens for 4 days out of the year (for most schools), but each school year is 8 months long. If you like the jumps, dancing, choreography, and performance, I'm going to agree with the above post. Get involved with a gym on their IOC teams.

For the guys that I know when I cheered in college, and when I coached college, they weren't primarily from competitive teams (I have coached, consulted and helped 5+ D1 universities). I cheered and coached athletes; power lifters, football players, wrestlers, etc... Very few men that I worked with came from strictly competitive backgrounds. You have to love you university and their athletics to really enjoy cheering in college. It is an experience that you'll never forget, and you'll always be nostalgic about it afterward.

 

[MissBee]

^ what he said.

 

[Ashley]

Basically what Bruce said. College cheerleading is completely different than all-star. It was around before it and has a whole different personality. They're certainly not outcasts, guys were the first cheer leaders, they just have a different role. It's plenty fun for guys if you're not expecting it to be like all-star cheerleading. And no, cheering has NOT been about DANCE, STUNTS, JUMPS, TUMBLING, and MOTIONS for 120 years. For 120 years, it has been about leading a crowd, which is exactly what guys and girls do on the sidelines at games. The stunts, jumps, tumbling, and dance aspects of it came much, much later. Likewise, cheerleading hasn't always been feminine or girly, like I said, the first cheer leaders were guys, not girls. And guys doing all of the things you listed came much later than when guys started cheering. Coed high-school and all-star cheerleading has actually moved away from this style, not the other way around. Coed stunting has been de-emphasized over the years in those.

I think you're thinking that college cheer made this big push to have the guys avoid doing all the things that cheerleaders have traditionally done. But college cheerleading has always been like this. A lot of high school and all-start cheerleaders don't like it, it's a different style of cheer. Like reaxion07 said, you're not going to get what you want out of college cheerleading. Either you can adjust to it, or you can find an open all-star team to join.

 

[cheerboy31]

First off, you have to remember that college cheerleading's main focus and priority is on cheerleading, crowd involvement, sidelines, gameday, university ambassadors, etc... They are not, for the most part, performance teams. Competition only happens for 4 days out of the year (for most schools), but each school year is 8 months long. If you like the jumps, dancing, choreography, and performance, I'm going to agree with the above post. Get involved with a gym on their IOC teams.

For the guys that I know when I cheered in college, and when I coached college, they weren't primarily from competitive teams (I have coached, consulted and helped 5+ D1 universities). I cheered and coached athletes; power lifters, football players, wrestlers, etc... Very few men that I worked with came from strictly competitive backgrounds. You have to love you university and their athletics to really enjoy cheering in college. It is an experience that you'll never forget, and you'll always be nostalgic about it afterward.

May i ask how long ago you cheered and coached? And i understand the "power lifter" guys who eat, sleep, and breathe stunting, thats why there is UCA. My team goes to NCA and NCA is more style rather than strength. And i disagree, you dont have to love your university and athletics to enjoy cheering in college. The athletics at my school suck but that doesn't mean that I won't enjoy tumbling down the court, dancing during performances, and cheering to give the crowd some entertainment.

 

[cheerboy31]

Basically what Bruce said. College cheerleading is completely different than all-star. It was around before it and has a whole different personality. They're certainly not outcasts, guys were the first cheer leaders, they just have a different role. It's plenty fun for guys if you're not expecting it to be like all-star cheerleading. And no, cheering has NOT been about DANCE, STUNTS, JUMPS, TUMBLING, and MOTIONS for 120 years. For 120 years, it has been about leading a crowd, which is exactly what guys and girls do on the sidelines at games. The stunts, jumps, tumbling, and dance aspects of it came much, much later. Likewise, cheerleading hasn't always been feminine or girly, like I said, the first cheer leaders were guys, not girls. And guys doing all of the things you listed came much later than when guys started cheering. Coed high-school and all-star cheerleading has actually moved away from this style, not the other way around. Coed stunting has been de-emphasized over the years in those.

I think you're thinking that college cheer made this big push to have the guys avoid doing all the things that cheerleaders have traditionally done. But college cheerleading has always been like this. A lot of high school and all-start cheerleaders don't like it, it's a different style of cheer. Like reaxion07 said, you're not going to get what you want out of college cheerleading. Either you can adjust to it, or you can find an open all-star team to join.

First of all, every cheerleader knows or should know that guys were the first cheerleaders. And yes, I obviously know my cheer history and know that all star came after and is different from college cheer. And yes cheer IS about DANCE, STUNTS, JUMPS, TUMBLING, and MOTIONS! Without them, you wouldn't have the SPORT cheerleading. Anyone can stand up and lead a group to yelling about something. And times have changed, cheer is not what it was 120 years ago, traditions go and things change. And yes, guy cheerleaders who cheer for a college team that don't enjoy stunting and clapping in the back all the time are an outcast. It doesn't matter if you're cheering for a middle school, high school, college, or in all-star, cheerleading is cheerleading, and it serves the same purpose, which is entertaining the crowd with organized yells, tough stunts, and flashy dance moves. And yes at a point in time cheerleading did become girly and feminine. If not then it wouldn't be seen as a woman's sport and we wouldn't have to down play what the guys do to attract more male athletes now would we? Right. And yes, they have moved away from that style, because like I said before, things change, as cheerleading becomes more and more innovative, what used to be done will just be a memory with the older generation it stuck with. There is a new generation of cheerleaders and were moving away from that buff, power lifting, football player looking enigma that has been the norm of most college cheer teams, and the norm view of college cheerleaders. And yes I can get what I want out of college cheerleading, I never said I didn't enjoy cheering on teams and pumping up a crowd, I said that I should be able to dance, jump more, and do every motion to a cheer. And I should be able to because it's cheerleading. Your missing the overall message of my post, my point is that guys' participation in cheerleading on most college teams is watered down to basic motions, no dancing, all stunting, and standing in the back clapping to attract more guys and actually keep them involved because there not gonna cheer if they're being stereotyped as gay for dancing, jumping, and doing motions that appear feminine. And it's not fair to the guys who are great at jumps, dancing, and are coordinated enough to perform all the motions in a cheer. So thanks for trying to make a good point.

 

[cheerboy31]

Sounds like your coach may be stuck in the old ways. If she won't listen, maybe you can join an I5 of Lv.6 team at a local gym. I've never really been on a team where guys were straight up not allowed to dance. It's probably your program. Just hang in there, get your stunt on, get your dance on outside of cheer, and hopefully next year the university will work out better for you.

Yeah the university will work out better because the coach is understanding. And yeah she is stuck in the old ways, and her own, she doesn't even take our ideas for stunts and formations. And yeah i haven't either, and if i was, i talked to the coach and told her how I felt and I was allowed to dance. Most coaches assume guys don't want to dance because they don't want to be talked about or stereotyped, but for me that's not the case. And I'm not against stunting, some days I actually want to just work on partner stunts because It can be fun, but I also want to dance, jump, and do all of the motions in a cheer and I think I should be able to.

 

[Ashley]

First of all, every cheerleader knows or should know that guys were the first cheerleaders. And yes, I obviously know my cheer history and know that all star came after and is different from college cheer. And yes cheer IS about DANCE, STUNTS, JUMPS, TUMBLING, and MOTIONS! Without them, you wouldn't have the SPORT cheerleading. Anyone can stand up and lead a group to yelling about something. And times have changed, cheer is not what it was 120 years ago, traditions go and things change. And yes, guy cheerleaders who cheer for a college team that don't enjoy stunting and clapping in the back all the time are an outcast. It doesn't matter if you're cheering for a middle school, high school, college, or in all-star, cheerleading is cheerleading, and it serves the same purpose, which is entertaining the crowd with organized yells, tough stunts, and flashy dance moves. And yes at a point in time cheerleading did become girly and feminine. If not then it wouldn't be seen as a woman's sport and we wouldn't have to down play what the guys do to attract more male athletes now would we? Right. And yes, they have moved away from that style, because like I said before, things change, as cheerleading becomes more and more innovative, what used to be done will just be a memory with the older generation it stuck with. There is a new generation of cheerleaders and were moving away from that buff, power lifting, football player looking enigma that has been the norm of most college cheer teams, and the norm view of college cheerleaders. And yes I can get what I want out of college cheerleading, I never said I didn't enjoy cheering on teams and pumping up a crowd, I said that I should be able to dance, jump more, and do every motion to a cheer. And I should be able to because it's cheerleading. Your missing the overall message of my post, my point is that guys' participation in cheerleading on most college teams is watered down to basic motions, no dancing, all stunting, and standing in the back clapping to attract more guys and actually keep them involved because there not gonna cheer if they're being stereotyped as gay for dancing, jumping, and doing motions that appear feminine. And it's not fair to the guys who are great at jumps, dancing, and are coordinated enough to perform all the motions in a cheer. So thanks for trying to make a good point.

I'm not missing the message of your post. You said for 120 years cheerleading has been about jumping, dancing, tumbling, and stunting. Which it hasn't, not even by a long shot. Maybe that's what it is now, but that hasn't been what it is in the past.

College has *always* attracted a different type of guy than the rest of cheerleading, so yes, guys have a very different role in college. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Maybe the rest of cheer has evolved, but college cheerleading hasn't. It's always been very traditional, it's a completely different style of cheer. If you want to dance and wear a tight uniform, go do all-stars. That's not what college cheerleading is and that's never been what it is. There's plenty of room for tumblers in competition - see most of the biggest NCA teams - you're either a stunter or a tumbler. That goes for guys and girls.

With all due respect, go do all the dances and motions. Go for it. But know that not a single person in those stands is going to be looking at you. They'll be looking at the cute girl in the short skirt in front of you. The primary focus of most coed college cheerleading is sideline cheerleading. And you're absolutely right, that in that capacity, guys don't, and won't have a huge role. But it's not that different in high school sideline cheerleading either. High schools just get to compete more than college.

 

[cheerboy31]

I'm not missing the message of your post. You said for 120 years cheerleading has been about jumping, dancing, tumbling, and stunting. Which it hasn't, not even by a long shot. Maybe that's what it is now, but that hasn't been what it is in the past.

College has *always* attracted a different type of guy than the rest of cheerleading, so yes, guys have a very different role in college. You may not like it, but it is what it is. Maybe the rest of cheer has evolved, but college cheerleading hasn't. It's always been very traditional, it's a completely different style of cheer. If you want to dance and wear a tight uniform, go do all-stars. That's not what college cheerleading is and that's never been what it is. There's plenty of room for tumblers in competition - see most of the biggest NCA teams - you're either a stunter or a tumbler. That goes for guys and girls.

With all due respect, go do all the dances and motions. Go for it. But know that not a single person in those stands is going to be looking at you. They'll be looking at the cute girl in the short skirt in front of you. The primary focus of most coed college cheerleading is sideline cheerleading. And you're absolutely right, that in that capacity, guys don't, and won't have a huge role. But it's not that different in high school sideline cheerleading either. High schools just get to compete more than college.

Ok well i'll rephrase it.... "For over 120 years, guys have been involved in cheerleading and it has transitioned from all guys, to girls, to coed, and along with the transition, the guys' role has fluctuated and now with training of guys on all-star teams, guys are learning a different style of cheerleading and are involved more causing conflict with the older role that guys served on college teams." Better? And no your wrong, everyone isn't gonna be looking at the cute girl in a short skirt, some are gonna be looking at the guy or guys who are doing the dance better than the girl in the cute skirt and doing something most guys won't dare to do. Some will like it, some won't, but guess what, they'll still be looking even if it's from a negative stand. And I honestly don't care if the president didn't want to watch me dance, as long as i'm having fun dancing and doing something i'm good at along with everyone else on the TEAM, i'll be perfectly fine. And also, everyone won't be looking at the cute girl in the short skirt because some will say she dances like a slut or just be envious of her. Maybe the guys will, but that's why these uniform revisions are being made now because the cute girl in the short skirt isn't deflecting being "cute" when she dances. And yes, some teams guys do have a huge role, and eventually on more teams they WILL. Eventually all the older generation coaches and industry representatives, who are stuck in the old ways of cheer that will become extinct at some point, move on with their lives and become replaced, new coaches will come about and greater things will transpire, making guys' role in college cheer and cheerleading itself even bigger.

 

[yojaehs]

Ok well i'll rephrase it.... "For over 120 years, guys have been involved in cheerleading and it has transitioned from all guys, to girls, to coed, and along with the transition, the guys' role has fluctuated and now with training of guys on all-star teams, guys are learning a different style of cheerleading and are involved more causing conflict with the older role that guys served on college teams." Better? And no your wrong, everyone isn't gonna be looking at the cute girl in a short skirt, some are gonna be looking at the guy or guys who are doing the dance better than the girl in the cute skirt and doing something most guys won't dare to do. Some will like it, some won't, but guess what, they'll still be looking even if it's from a negative stand. And I honestly don't care if the president didn't want to watch me dance, as long as i'm having fun dancing and doing something i'm good at along with everyone else on the TEAM, i'll be perfectly fine. And also, everyone won't be looking at the cute girl in the short skirt because some will say she dances like a slut or just be envious of her. Maybe the guys will, but that's why these uniform revisions are being made now because the cute girl in the short skirt isn't deflecting being "cute" when she dances. And yes, some teams guys do have a huge role, and eventually on more teams they WILL. Eventually all the older generation coaches and industry representatives, who are stuck in the old ways of cheer that will become extinct at some point, move on with their lives and become replaced, new coaches will come about and greater things will transpire, making guys' role in college cheer and cheerleading itself even bigger.

I cheered at a UCA college, coached at an NCA college, both won. I will say that if you are looking to solely dance/jump then you should look into trying out for a dance team. Your #1 responsibility is to represent the University, you need to understand that and realize that is #1. The male role is NOT to solely stunt and yell through a megaphone, but that IS very important. If you are competing for an NCA college, there will be time to dance and jump, but that is not what Gameday is about. Nor is that what being a male on the sidelines is about. From a coaches point of view, you have NO idea what is being told to them by their BOSS, which is (in most cases) "focus on the game, get alumni excited". A cupie contest is probably going to get more "alumni" interested in "donating" to have the cheerleaders come to their company's rally's more than the boys doing a dance off. Sorry, but I LOVED cheering in college, I loved dancing, jumping, tumbling WAY more than stunting, however if I wanted my scholarship I needed to stunt.

In regards to your "all-star" references, All-Star is encouraging co-ed stunting.

 

[cheerboy31]

I cheered at a UCA college, coached at an NCA college, both won. I will say that if you are looking to solely dance/jump then you should look into trying out for a dance team. Your #1 responsibility is to represent the University, you need to understand that and realize that is #1. The male role is NOT to solely stunt and yell through a megaphone, but that IS very important. If you are competing for an NCA college, there will be time to dance and jump, but that is not what Gameday is about. Nor is that what being a male on the sidelines is about. From a coaches point of view, you have NO idea what is being told to them by their BOSS, which is (in most cases) "focus on the game, get alumni excited". A cupie contest is probably going to get more "alumni" interested in "donating" to have the cheerleaders come to their company's rally's more than the boys doing a dance off. Sorry, but I LOVED cheering in college, I loved dancing, jumping, tumbling WAY more than stunting, however if I wanted my scholarship I needed to stunt.

In regards to your "all-star" references, All-Star is encouraging co-ed stunting.

Yes, I know all-star is encouraging more co-ed stunts. On my competitive team we did some coed stunts, but we still rocked the dance, tumbled our butts off, and jumped better than the girls. Don't get me wrong I actually like to do coed stunts, they make me feel powerful and very in control, but I also enjoy dancing, jumping, and doing all the moves in a cheer. My problem is the limit of participation guys actually have.

 

[yojaehs]

Yes, I know all-star is encouraging more co-ed stunts. On my competitive team we did some coed stunts, but we still rocked the dance, tumbled our butts off, and jumped better than the girls. Don't get me wrong I actually like to do coed stunts, they make me feel powerful and very in control, but I also enjoy dancing, jumping, and doing all the moves in a cheer. My problem is the limit of participation guys actually have.

I don't think it's limited participation, it's just a different role. Girls actually take on a different role when cheering in college as well. Girls don't dance like they do in all-star and MOST colleges girls don't jump (at least during games). Girls are asked to cheer with signs and poms (which takes some time to do it right). Males have their role which is different but girls have to change as well.
Most schools have their "look" which might mean different hair/make-up (which to me isn't a big deal but I hear girls complain about it all the time).
I mean it's college, it SHOULD be different.