All-Star Your Daughter Won't Fly Forever

[njallday]

Per Mayo Clinic, strength training is okay and can be beneficial for young athletes (the article even mentions as young as 7-8):
Strength training: OK for kids? - Mayo Clinic

With that said, for everyone that wants to keep adding additional workouts and cross training:

The Dangers of Overdoing It

The problem was put into focus three years ago by the American Academy of Pediatrics’ Council on Sports Medicine and Fitness. In a report in the academy’s journal, Pediatrics, Dr. Joel S. Brenner wrote, “Overuse injuries, overtraining and burnout among child and adolescent athletes are a growing problem in the United States.”

Kids don't all have the same body types, health, or schedule. What we do know is, cheer should not only be competitive, it should be enjoyable. Kids should not have to pop Ibuprofen like Skittles, use Icy Hot for body lotion, or use braces and KT tape as magical devices to get them back in the game earlier. If we are truly concerned about injuries and concussions, then realize and admit these kids have physical limitations at any given point in their training. Additional teams for cross training should be something your child wants to do. It should not be forced by parents or used by gyms to get them to commit to lower level teams to participate in the higher levels or done "just in case they grow". My only suggestion is let your kids, coaches, and PT's determine what would be beneficial and just enjoy cheering them on.

Yeah, I'm cool with some strength training. I am also cool with/an advocate of cheerleading requiring an off-season so... overuse is overuse.

 

[HappyGirls]

Yeah, I'm cool with some strength training. I am also cool with/an advocate of cheerleading requiring an off-season so... overuse is overuse.

Agree totally with this! My current situation: my kids have always been multi-sport athletes, as current research indicates this is healthiest and helps prevent over-use injuries and facilitates better overall athletic development. However, CPs have balked at continuing their other sports, saying they want to focus on tumbling and cheer. So with reservation, I am letting them transition to allstar this May. Working in adequate rest and other types of physical activity is a must for us! How do other allstar parents address over-use issues?

 

[MissCongeniality]

Hi all I just wanted to chip in and say I learned a LOT from this discussion which I can hopefully take on into my coaching. I just wanted to add that I am by no means trying to say that flyers are the 'most important' or 'best'. I would without a doubt say that bases and backs do far more work than flyers in keeping the stunt in the air in my own experience. Flyer's jobs are to be flexible and stable and the rest comes to the ground crew. I have so much respect for bases. I just wondered what everyone's opinion was on a flyer being told to lose weight to stay on the team. With the rise of eating disorders I'm not sure I can effectively coach until my own understanding and thoughts on the topic are secure. While I would NEVER recommend a flyer diets, I know how cruel kids can be.

No, just no, on the losing weight. I have seen insane eating disorders and methods utilized (often promoted by the parent) in my CPs time in cheer. If you ask my CP who was one of those flyers who moved to beast base when she grew, she would tell you that it often isn't the "size" of the flyer as much as it is body control. She would take a stout strong flyer who can really pull herself up than a skinny string bean wet noodle. In fact she once had one such (stout) flyer who she said practically felt like she was self levitating.

As another poster suggested, I think with any group of adolescents it is better to just discuss healthy eating habits vs weight loss, and it should be with everyone, not just the flyers. Kids this age of all sizes are already usually very aware of every perceived "imperfection" real or not.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I'll never tell my athletes (high school) that they're "getting too big to fly." Nothing like that.

However, I WILL address their unhealthy eating habits.

You can't say "I want to cheer in college" or "I want to get in shape for cheer season" when you:

*Drink Starbucks before every practice.
*Hit ChickFilA after every practice.
*Eat every single unhealthy thing in the venue on comp days.
*Get your senior friends to bring you Wendy's and Dairy Queen for lunch every day.

That doesn't work.

 

[HappyGirls]

[QUOTE="It talks about the different between strength training and weightlifting.
Strength training: OK for kids? - Mayo Clinic

ETA, again:
here is a link to a summary of s study that alks about growth plate damage[/QUOTE

Thank you for the additional information in your edits. It sounds like we may be quibbling over terminology here, as the links you have posted are in agreement with the American Academy of Pediatrics page that I posted. ☺
The Mayo website is differentiating between the sport of olympic-style weightlifting and lifting weights for strength..as did the AAP website. I agree with this quote from the study summary you posted: "Is it safe for kids to lift weights? The answer from today's top research authorities is a resounding 'Yes'." I also agree that a weight that a child can only manage for 2-3 reps is too heavy...AAP recommends 8...and I'm comfortable with that.

 

[cheer25mom]

[QUOTE="It talks about the different between strength training and weightlifting.
Strength training: OK for kids? - Mayo Clinic

ETA, again:
here is a link to a summary of s study that alks about growth plate damage[/QUOTE

Thank you for the additional information in your edits. It sounds like we may be quibbling over terminology here, as the links you have posted are in agreement with the American Academy of Pediatrics page that I posted. ☺
The Mayo website is differentiating between the sport of olympic-style weightlifting and lifting weights for strength..as did the AAP website. I agree with this quote from the study summary you posted: "Is it safe for kids to lift weights? The answer from today's top research authorities is a resounding 'Yes'." I also agree that a weight that a child can only manage for 2-3 reps is too heavy...AAP recommends 8...and I'm comfortable with that.

Yes, and my Pediatrician goes a step farther by saying there is simply no need to risk a kid lifting excessive amounts of weight, even if they can do 8 reps with it. In her opinion the risks of using large amounts of weight ( more than 75% of the child's body weight) outweigh any added benefit of lifting heavier weights, at least until puberty is complete. She has research that says the additional benefit to overall health and joint stability is limited, and we know that risk increases as weight increases. I will see if there is an online resource for that study the next time I talk with her. We discussed this when CP started getting serious about cheer and dance so it has been a couple of years.

 

[Keep_Believing]

Sometimes it is metabolism and the genes you end up with. My oldest CP (15 years old) drinks water and eats very healthy. My youngest CP (14 years old) loves sweets, chips, fries, and soda. Youngest CP ended up with the skinny genes from her Dad's side of the family. My oldest CP isn't so lucky and ended up with my genes.

 

[catlady]

I just wondered what everyone's opinion was on a flyer being told to lose weight to stay on the team. With the rise of eating disorders I'm not sure I can effectively coach until my own understanding and thoughts on the topic are secure. While I would NEVER recommend a flyer diets, I know how cruel kids can be.

All coaches can do is be respectful. If a child comes onto a team weighing 100 lbs and then has a growth spurt, goes through puberty or over eats and is now 130, if the bases can't handle the increase your only option is to be kind, but truthful. I do believe this is a conversation best had with parents first, and preferably with options available if possible. If you don't handle it as the coach, the kids will take matters into their own hands, especially if they're hurting, straining or overly fatigued. "You are a great flyer, but your size isn't working out with the size of our bases this year," is still going to be painful, but it is a much better option than team mates lashing out with, "Hey heifer, lay off the donuts."

 

[HappyGirls]

Yes, and my Pediatrician goes a step farther by saying there is simply no need to risk a kid lifting excessive amounts of weight, even if they can do 8 reps with it. In her opinion the risks of using large amounts of weight ( more than 75% of the child's body weight) outweigh any added benefit of lifting heavier weights, at least until puberty is complete. She has research that says the additional benefit to overall health and joint stability is limited, and we know that risk increases as weight increases. I will see if there is an online resource for that study the next time I talk with her. We discussed this when CP started getting serious about cheer and dance so it has been a couple of years.

Please do share...I will be interested to see the study, it definitely differs from the large number of studies cited by AAP. I'm surprised your pediatrician is okay with tumbling passes, as I just recently read in the Addicted to Tumbling blog that an athlete's joints sustain forces 6-8 times their body weight during a running tumbling pass. That's a whole lot more than the 75% of body weight limitation she recommends for weight training!

 

[cheer25mom]

Please do share...I will be interested to see the study, it definitely differs from the large number of studies cited by AAP. I'm surprised your pediatrician is okay with tumbling passes, as I just recently read in the Addicted to Tumbling blog that an athlete's joints sustain forces 6-8 times their body weight during a running tumbling pass. That's a whole lot more than the 75% of body weight limitation she recommends for weight training!

Weight training is inherently different. Static vs dynamic. Also, technique plays a role. It's very easy to power lift with poor technique. Really, bottom line is if it's not necessary or beneficial why risk the extra weight?


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[HappyGirls]

Weight training is inherently different. Static vs dynamic. Also, technique plays a role. It's very easy to power lift with poor technique. Really, bottom line is if it's not necessary or beneficial why risk the extra weight?


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Force is force...either static or dynamic...speaking from a physics perspective, it is measured the same way. Agree about poor form..that's why young kids especially need qualified instruction. Of course, the same applies to tumbling..LOL. I'll reserve judgment on the benefits of the amount of weight lifted for 8 reps until I see the study you are citing...couldn't find it on Google. Personally, I find limits based on body weight to be arbitrary because body composition can vary greatly by indivual. I prefer the AAP method of limiting by functional capability..and having had lifted weights myself for the past 38 years, I can tell you, if you can do 8 or more reps, that is a very manageable weight...not something that requires sudden movement, momentum or other "cheating" that compromises form.

 

[emo_wifey]

Force is force...either static or dynamic...speaking from a physics perspective, it is measured the same way. Agree about poor form..that's why young kids especially need qualified instruction. Of course, the same applies to tumbling..LOL. I'll reserve judgment on the benefits of the amount of weight lifted for 8 reps until I see the study you are citing...couldn't find it on Google. Personally, I find limits based on body weight to be arbitrary because body composition can vary greatly by indivual. I prefer the AAP method of limiting by functional capability..and having had lifted weights myself for the past 38 years, I can tell you, if you can do 8 or more reps, that is a very manageable weight...not something that requires sudden movement, momentum or other "cheating" that compromises form.

Static and dynamic force are not equal. I'm not jumping in this training discussion but I've studied engineering physics, they're not the same. Force may equal force but static force will not equal dynamic force if weight is equal.

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[HappyGirls]

Static and dynamic force are not equal. I'm not jumping in this training discussion but I've studied engineering physics, they're not the same. Force may equal force but static force will not equal dynamic force if weight is equal.

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[HappyGirls]

Totally agree with you...dynamic force will be greater..and that was my point! An athlete experiences greater forces when tumbling due to the speed of movement!

 

[cheer25mom]

Totally agree with you...dynamic force will be greater..and that was my point! An athlete experiences greater forces when tumbling due to the speed of movement!

No, not necessarily. Static can be greater. It has to to with duration, angle, etc. as well. Tumbling forces are shorter in duration and happen at more natural angles. It's way more complex than just tumbling produces greater force.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree about this. I have seen what my husband has been through with it, and that's enough for me. Lifelong pain, surgeries, etc.

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