All-Star Discuss Your Usasf Struggles Here

[Tealxblack25]

Well, there isn't a deduction for landing on the red part of the mat. Landing on the red, slipping and catching yourself with your hands could (and did) lead to deductions. That's a situation out of their control. I'm not on board with the whole "OMG IT WAS A SWIMMING POOL" either, but the red part was clearly a big issue.

This is what I have been trying to say too, I don't agree that the floor was a swimming pool or "niagra falls" to which Ive seen on twitter but in my opinion.. nothing, nowhere and no how should ANY part of that floor be wet out of bounds or not out of bounds.

Also, putting degree of wetness of the floor aside.. If I was an athlete, competing at worlds and the floor being wet was merely even just a RUMOR.. that would get into my head so bad and psych me out. So yeah maybe the floor wasn't a swimming pool but theres no denying it was messing with some of these kids mentally too like.. omg what if I fall.
So sad and irritating.

It really stinks too because I love the IDEA of having the competition outside, I love the back drop I love all of it but it is so poorly executed that it ruins it.

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

The venue is just too small. Every year it was overcrowded. IIRC there were also complaints about having those teams compete early in the am as well, saying their bodies had not "woken up yet" since most all practice in the evening or night. Except for being with my team, I would literally go in the am and stay all day in the same spot just so I wouldn't lose my seat when the divisions/teams I wanted to see came on.

The stadium idea was a great plan to try to help relieve overcrowding but terrible execution #deductionsfordays

Well, hopefully when Varsity Stadium (or whatever they'll call it) comes around they have Large Coed and Large Senior compete at the same time in different places to avoid overcrowding. USASF can probably sell more than 9,000 tickets between the two as well (if they're still selling tickets for each division). Win for everyone.

 

[p.o.k.]

The overcrowding and long lines happen every year. Last year athletes were falling asleep on the mat waiting for awards to start. I think TGLC got a picture of their kids snoozing on their backpacks and each other.
I'm a conspiracy person so I am convinced that one gym owner is being made to pay for their battle against Varsity by essentially making sure their most loved team never sees gold again but that's just me.

I think it is more than one team in the grand scheme of black balling - it may not be gold but advancing to finals. Especially when you see some very good level 4 teams advancing past prelims (2015). It is all in that special unicorn they call raw score that can be anything and so once the set point value for deductions are taken the team placed just where is necessary in the grand scheme of things.

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

All right... I have purposefully been quiet here for the last few days to get a little perspective, research, information, and celebrate. In that time I have seen and heard some awful comments from gyms, athletes, and parents. I have encouraged my CP to ignore most of them and to believe NONE of them. Here is my .99 cents (more than 2 cents BECAUSE I WAS ACTUALLY THERE)
1) For the last 3 years this part of the competition has gone past 11pm. Two years ago, we referred to a Worlds Day 4. If the lateness of the hour bothered ANYONE, they should have spoken up BEFORE they competed. And food for thought...why is it suddenly bothering
gyms this year vs past years?
2) It was NOT "soaking, slightly, partially" wet on the mat. If it had been, ALL of the athletes would have had wet uniforms WHEN THEY SAT FOR AWARDS. There was some moisture on the red boundary from what I saw. AGAIN...why are you on the boundary??? The shoes might have been "soaking" wet because athletes were running all over the grass after their performance. I was PERSONALLY walking on the mat after awards and IT WAS NOT WET.
3) There were 3 owners/coaches who declined recompeting the next day. I know this for a FACT. One of those owners/coaches actually greeted us upon our arrival at our hotel with HUGE congratulations along with their parents later that night. Love that gym and their classy athletes, parents, and owners.
4) Those same coaches may have posted different feelings on SM later, but that was AFTER THE AWARDS. So perhaps those coaches/owners might have thought things were going to turn out differently.
5) If LAG were going to recompete then it was already being discussed that LCO would have to as well, as they had multiple issues on multiple teams.
I will now end with this...all of those teams were AMAZING! It is a HUGE honor to be in the same realm let alone to win against any of them. At the end of the day F5 had less deductions than the others. As for the comments on their "low raw score"....it would be the lowest BECAUSE THEY WENT FIRST among the Big 5. This phenomenon happens every year with comparable scoring. It was really sad seeing some coaches/athletes looking for ANY REASON to recompete because it wasn't their day. This division has ALWAYS been one that "whoever hits, wins".

I appreciate you adding your perspective. The low raw score and the fact that the division always goes late stand out to me. I get that someone could have been hurt, so I don't want to say it was okay that the red was wet, because it WAS dangerous, but I also don't quite see how the mat conceivably got SO MUCH more wet as the night went on that the teams who performed first weren't also affected.

I'm sorry that F5 isn't getting the kudos they deserve. They were amazing.

Again I say someone should of stopped it. USASF, Judges, Spotters, Coaches, Athletes, Parents, Disney...somebody! There is no way that it was wet only on the boarders and not on the floor as well.

I see your point. And agree the red borders were unsafe. But I feel like if the mat itself was dangerously wet that there would be some evidence of that, which I don't see here. Not that it matters, slipping off the edge could have been catastrophic, and even having wet shoes would have been dangerous. And I'm honestly afraid of that stage being so high up. Why on earth are the large teams ( who have to use ALL of the mat) on the elevated stage?

Not trying to start any form of argument here, but there have been multiple complaints about the competition running past 11 pm in the last several years that this has been taking place. Whether or not the USASF has addressed those complaints, they have been made. As for the floor. When athletes FROM SEVERAL TEAMS document that the floor is indeed wet, stated that they told coaches and the spotters the floor was wet, and said athletes were seen slipping/and wiping off their shoes, I'm going to take their word and assume the floor was wet. Once again, no offense to you, or to F5 for hitting. I commend them completely, but saying that. Evidence by MULTIPLE sources had presented that the floor was wet. This isn't an issue of a team being bitter and not hitting. This is a safety concern and should be taken seriously as such. If it was just one team complaining, maybe my view would change, but members and coaches of several teams have spoken on the wet floor. So IMO I don't think anyone is trying to use this as an excuse because they didn't hit.

So did anyone ask to redo the competition based on late performance times in previous years? I don't know?

 

[cheermommaRN]

Has anyone contacted Kimberly Archie? I know she was on here at one point but she is literally the bulldog of cheer safety. I'm wondering if she has seen or heard any of this.
The fact of the matter is there is NOT ONE gym (except CSP because she really has nothing to lose at this point) that is going to take a stand. They haven't the last 3 years and I don't expect to see anything change now. Someone equated it to traffic laws. it will take a child getting seriously injured and the USASF being sued for them to even begin to address this. Hell they won't even put out a statement regarding the incident, they have their heads buried posting crap about "loyalty" on their Twitter.
I would encourage parents and coaches that were there to contact Disney with this video and the pictures of the gates being sealed with people inside. Most likely you will get some kind of compensation for the gates/unorganized lines. As for the mat, that's up to the gyms to decide how much longer they are going to bend over for USASF and Varsity.

 

[abbyandy9]

Tweet by one of our athletes.

(With permission to post from her Mom)

This is absurd!

 

[12stepCheermom]

Finally caught up. And welcome to the retired me, no longer affiliated with a gym at all and hence far less diplomatic about expressing my opinions.

I'm a loose cannon folks. Buckle up.

1) I don't care how wet or damp or slightly un-dry the mat was. There is no excuse for it. We sat and waited over a hour the first year they put this event outside in this venue when they blew out the speakers when KC Fearless was on...and we waited over an hour for them to fix the sound. Which they did by stealing the speakers from the empty milk house. (That was the year awards were well past midnight and worlds day 4 was born). Point being, they didn't have an issue making the planet wait for them to fix a problem then, and that wasn't a safety concern. In the time they were meeting with the coaches, they could've fixed this.

The milk house was empty. It would've taken 20 minutes to go grab those mats and put them here and give these girls a safe competition surface.

2) you could be a mini level 1 at basically any reputable gym and you know the expectation on the floor. You run with your hands by your sides, you stay tight, you don't fix your hair and you don't pull down your skirt when it's around your waist. Period. I know for a fact CSP trains her kids the same way. So for seasoned CEA veterans to be visibly trying to wipe down the soles of their slick bottomed shoes (those shoes do not really have "tread" and if they're older shoes you know they basically don't have a sole for how quick they wear out) right at the front of the mat, that WAS their way of trying to tell the powers that be, "this is wrong please stop the routine!"

3) the red border is considered in bounds. I think everyone agrees it was clearly the slickest part of the mat, but if it's not illegal to land there, it should be safe to land there.

4) you've had a LAG flyer's mom (here) tell you her kid's shoes were soaked through to her socks. That negates any argument your arm chair quarterback self may have about whether you "think" the mat was wet or not. It was. And she didn't tumble onto the red at any point so the only way they got that way was from the ramp/carpet leading to the mat or the mat itself. This is not a mini level 1 team folks, they're not having three girls hold two feet at prep. If a flyers shoes are wet, combined with the difficulty of stunt that any of those LAG teams put in the air, that is a seriously dangerous situation for both flyers and bases trying to catch them. The fact no one got hurt amazes me.

5) I'm not even going to speak to the taped gates. That's just unfathomable. Clearly usasf has no understanding of fire code and I suggest they google the hamlet chicken plant in hamlet NC if they want a real life example of what locking people into a space can result in during a fire....and granted this was outside so even if fire is not the biggest emergency, getting trampled certainly is if there was an emergency.

6) hypocrisy-they name is USASF. Don't dole out deductions for arbitrary "rules" if you're not going to follow your own. You are invalid.

7) I do think the division was "robbed." Maybe not of a medal, but of the opportunity to put their best routine on the mat. You can see it in multiple team's performance (their faces especially) they were surviving those routines, not serving them.

I already have an issue with the fact worlds operates in its own reality. No other sport on the planet does the culminating event operate under a different set of rules. The Super Bowl doesn't use a different rule book or make touchdowns count 12 points and interceptions count -3. Yet the worlds scoresheet is only used for worlds so you have no opportunity to make adjustments from judges feedback (unless you manage the next day and change your routine overnight, and no other competitions do that either, two days are guaranteed). But for the marquis divisions of the sport to not only have a different set of rules, but to also have a significantly different competition space unlike any they've competed at during the year (by the way, Super Bowl players...you're playing on a basketball court for the Super Bowl!) and top it off with the cluster that was 2016 LAG finals and those kids had a different scoresheet, a different venue and different conditions (wet mats) and the expectation of the cheer planet that they serve up deduction free, amazing routines.

Call me crazy but I think even F5 would've liked to have the opportunity to hit that routine in a familiar INDOOR arena on dry mats. They might've won (and kudos given the circumstances) but I bet they don't think it was the best routine they could've put on the floor either.

 

[tojofasho]

"

I vote everyone says their favorite memory was the slip n' slide at worlds.

 

[luv2cheer92]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The USASF &amp; Inside Publications want to hear your favorite memories from this season: <a href="2015-2016 Season Commemorative Yearbook: Story Submission Form">https://t.co/qxUQE6LoC9</a></p>&mdash; USASF Cheer (@USASFcheer) <a href="">April 27, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I vote everyone says their favorite memory was the slip n' slide at worlds.

Really USASF, this, this is what you're focusing on right now. A yearbook?

 

[cheermommaRN]

"

I vote everyone says their favorite memory was the slip n' slide at worlds.

Way ahead of you...I've been commenting on all of their posts today.

 

[quietmom]

Really USASF, this, this is what you're focusing on right now. A yearbook?

When you have a traumatic brain injury from their slip and slid mats, your memory is crap. So they are doing a public service

 

[MomMomMamaMom]

Finally caught up. And welcome to the retired me, no longer affiliated with a gym at all and hence far less diplomatic about expressing my opinions.

I'm a loose cannon folks. Buckle up.

1) I don't care how wet or damp or slightly un-dry the mat was. There is no excuse for it. We sat and waited over a hour the first year they put this event outside in this venue when they blew out the speakers when KC Fearless was on...and we waited over an hour for them to fix the sound. Which they did by stealing the speakers from the empty milk house. (That was the year awards were well past midnight and worlds day 4 was born). Point being, they didn't have an issue making the planet wait for them to fix a problem then, and that wasn't a safety concern. In the time they were meeting with the coaches, they could've fixed this.

The milk house was empty. It would've taken


3) the red border is considered in bounds. I think everyone agrees it was clearly the slickest part of the mat, but if it's not illegal to land there, it should be safe to land there.


5) I'm not even going to speak to the taped gates. That's just unfathomable. Clearly usasf has no understanding of fire code and I suggest they google the hamlet chicken plant in hamlet NC if they want a real life example of what locking people into a space can result in during a fire....and granted this was outside so even if fire is not the biggest emergency, getting trampled certainly is if there was an emergency.

6) hypocrisy-they name is USASF. Don't dole out deductions for arbitrary "rules" if you're not going to follow your own. You are invalid.

7) I do think the division was "robbed." Maybe not of a medal, but of the opportunity to put their best routine on the mat. You can see it in multiple team's performance (their faces especially) they were surviving those routines, not serving them.

I already have an issue with the fact worlds operates in its own reality. No other sport on the planet does the culminating event operate under a different set of rules. The Super Bowl doesn't use a different rule book or make touchdowns count 12 points and interceptions count -3. Yet the worlds scoresheet is only used for worlds so you have no opportunity to make adjustments from judges feedback (unless you manage the next day and change your routine overnight, and no other competitions do that either, two days are guaranteed). But for the marquis divisions of the sport to not only have a different set of rules, but to also have a significantly different competition space unlike any they've competed at during the year (by the way, Super Bowl players...you're playing on a basketball court for the Super Bowl!) and top it off with the cluster that was 2016 LAG finals and those kids had a different scoresheet, a different venue and different conditions (wet mats) and the expectation of the cheer planet that they serve up deduction free, amazing routines.

Call me crazy but I think even F5 would've liked to have the opportunity to hit that routine in a familiar INDOOR arena on dry mats. They might've won (and kudos given the circumstances) but I bet they don't think it was the best routine they could've put on the floor either.

Agreed.

2) you could be a mini level 1 at basically any reputable gym and you know the expectation on the floor. You run with your hands by your sides, you stay tight, you don't fix your hair and you don't pull down your skirt when it's around your waist. Period. I know for a fact CSP trains her kids the same way. So for seasoned CEA veterans to be visibly trying to wipe down the soles of their slick bottomed shoes (those shoes do not really have "tread" and if they're older shoes you know they basically don't have a sole for how quick they wear out) right at the front of the mat, that WAS their way of trying to tell the powers that be, "this is wrong please stop the routine!"
.

Well, they were definitely protesting, that part is hard to disagree with. But them protesting doesn't exclude a political statement here. It very well could have been that they knew they were going to protest ahead of time, or that they were frustrated by their performance etc. Or even that their coaches and/or supporters had told them it wasn't going to be ideal. Or that the teams who had gone before them and noticed issues hadn't told them it would be unfair. Not saying this is true, but also seeing that it could easily mean that they were frustrated and/or mad, not necessarily that they wanted more than to have a better situation for their routine. Sorry, I admire the SE spirit, and CSP's willingness to go to the mat for her team... But they definitely have the reputation as a team for making statements that are about how they "deserve" to be viewed. It isn't always wrong, but it is consistent. I feel like they have also been trained to make a strong enough statement to actually stop the routine if they want to. Or their coaches could, or would. Maybe they just didn't know it was so bad yet, I don't know... But what you say here doesn't equate to a given to me.

4) you've had a LAG flyer's mom (here) tell you her kid's shoes were soaked through to her socks. That negates any argument your arm chair quarterback self may have about whether you "think" the mat was wet or not. It was. And she didn't tumble onto the red at any point so the only way they got that way was from the ramp/carpet leading to the mat or the mat itself. This is not a mini level 1 team folks, they're not having three girls hold two feet at prep. If a flyers shoes are wet, combined with the difficulty of stunt that any of those LAG teams put in the air, that is a seriously dangerous situation for both flyers and bases trying to catch them. The fact no one got hurt amazes me.

Armchair quarter back self here, but you can have wet shoes from stepping on the field, stepping on the red, or other reasons. I don't disagree that wet shoes are a safety concern. I don't disagree that the red mats were of concern. I don't disagree that the mats should have been completely dry, but I do see that this was maybe not THE major safety concern. The red was what I view to be so dangerous.

ETA: I see the post after that there were slick spots on the floor, and acknowledge that. I do believe the whole division event was unsafe, and should be a(n) USASF concern. I also don't believe that because it was okay for some teams, they should have continued. I just believe that since it happened the way it did, there is no reason to not acknowledge that every team out there faced the same situation.

 

[wishfulthinking]

"

I vote everyone says their favorite memory was the slip n' slide at worlds.

Or... The Steve Harvey incident.

 

[CatFan22]

All right... I have purposefully been quiet here for the last few days to get a little perspective, research, information, and celebrate. In that time I have seen and heard some awful comments from gyms, athletes, and parents. I have encouraged my CP to ignore most of them and to believe NONE of them. Here is my .99 cents (more than 2 cents BECAUSE I WAS ACTUALLY THERE)
1) For the last 3 years this part of the competition has gone past 11pm. Two years ago, we referred to a Worlds Day 4. If the lateness of the hour bothered ANYONE, they should have spoken up BEFORE they competed. And food for thought...why is it suddenly bothering
gyms this year vs past years?
2) It was NOT "soaking, slightly, partially" wet on the mat. If it had been, ALL of the athletes would have had wet uniforms WHEN THEY SAT FOR AWARDS. There was some moisture on the red boundary from what I saw. AGAIN...why are you on the boundary??? The shoes might have been "soaking" wet because athletes were running all over the grass after their performance. I was PERSONALLY walking on the mat after awards and IT WAS NOT WET.
3) There were 3 owners/coaches who declined recompeting the next day. I know this for a FACT. One of those owners/coaches actually greeted us upon our arrival at our hotel with HUGE congratulations along with their parents later that night. Love that gym and their classy athletes, parents, and owners.
4) Those same coaches may have posted different feelings on SM later, but that was AFTER THE AWARDS. So perhaps those coaches/owners might have thought things were going to turn out differently.
5) If LAG were going to recompete then it was already being discussed that LCO would have to as well, as they had multiple issues on multiple teams.
I will now end with this...all of those teams were AMAZING! It is a HUGE honor to be in the same realm let alone to win against any of them. At the end of the day F5 had less deductions than the others. As for the comments on their "low raw score"....it would be the lowest BECAUSE THEY WENT FIRST among the Big 5. This phenomenon happens every year with comparable scoring. It was really sad seeing some coaches/athletes looking for ANY REASON to recompete because it wasn't their day. This division has ALWAYS been one that "whoever hits, wins".

My CP is on Panthers. She saw a couple of her teammates slip on the wetness of the boarder as they were walking onto the mat to perform. Not only were the boarders slick, but the Worlds logo in the middle and white strips that hold the panels together were also slick in spots. The mat itself wasn’t soaking wet. BlueCat and some others have already clarified that. But the fact remains that there WERE slick spots due to moisture, not only on the boarders, but within the performing surface as well. My CP felt wetness on @SheCheers CP’s shoes when she was basing her in pyramid while she was performing. The videos show kids wiping their shoes off while performing. NOT from running through the grass after their performance. In fact, my CP said there were kids from F5 who also commented about the wetness on the mat.

So tell me, since you personally walked on the mat after awards and are declaring that the mat was NOT wet, are you accusing the athletes that have spoken up about the moisture on the mat liars? Are you saying my CP, @SheCheers CP, @mstealtoyou CP are all lying about it? I take exception to that. NONE of the kids I know have said a single negative thing about F5. In fact, my CP and her teammates were all giving major kudos and congrats to F5 on their win and were all saying how they deserved it since they hit when it counted and they didn’t. But here you are questioning their integrity and the integrity of CA, World Cup, Stingrays, and CEA for questioning the situation and accusing them of looking for excuses to go again because they didn’t hit. Are you kidding me? I take exception to that as well. I’ve seen nothing but incredibly positive sportsmanship expressed from our athletes and coaches to F5. And here you are questioning their integrity.

Is my CP upset about not winning? Of course she is. Who wouldn’t be? They all want to win. They all dream about it. But, she also feels grateful and blessed to have won a bronze medal, especially in light of the situation. What has her the most upset is that they didn’t hit. They all want to go out there and have that amazing performance that they know they’re capable of….to hit at Worlds. She’s also upset that the conditions on the mat were unsafe and the officials did nothing about it, even after multiple people complained. Our kids didn’t know there was moisture on the mat until they were out there and ready to compete. The officials knew about it when the girl on Panthers slipped. After Panthers performance, they were wiping the sides of the mat off with towels. They knew about it then. Why didn’t they inspect the mat then? Why did they still let SE and Orange take the floor? Someone else mentioned that Hot Cheer complained after they competed. Why wasn’t it inspect then before any additional teams went?

Everyone knows that any of the top 5 teams in LAG can take it on any given day. They’re ALL AMAZING! Which is why this is has been our favorite division for so many years. F5 took it on Sunday. And yes, they took it because they hit when it counted and when the others didn’t. Their win was well deserved! CONGRATSA!! Although, I will point out that you’re incorrect in your reasoning for why F5’s raw score was lower than the others. It wasn’t due to their performance order. They may have gone first of the top 5 on Day 2. But their raw score was also the lowest of the top 5 on Day 1 and they were the very last team to compete in the division on that day. So, that reasoning doesn’t hold. It was, however, high enough to win and that’s all that matters.


Again, Congrats to your CP! I’m sure she’s been dreaming about that moment her whole cheer career. It’s just unfortunate that the moment is being shadowed by controversy.

 

[Lablover]

I've seen this mentioned a few times about the conditions and how all LAG competed under same conditions so the whole "excuse" that the mat was wet doesn't hold water (see what I did there ) but in my unscientific mind wouldn't the dropping temperature increase the amount of dew throughout the night as well as the more teams that competed the more wet shoes walked on the mat thereby increasing the moisture of the main part of the mat?