All-Star Disqualifying Cheaters

[Keep_Believing]

@TheVipersMom "How do we know it's theirs- or how do we know it hasn't been altered". Unfortunately, that is true. Some people will go to extremes to cheat. A few years back, I heard of a lady looking to buy a copy of a birth certificate so her kid could play in a specific baseball league.

 

[Official OWECheer]

Yes, I talked to our gym owner yesterday and she gave me scenarios how it may not be these gyms fault and she asked how she can protect her self from that.

She said a lot of times she doesn't even see birth certificates, if you come from another gym and say your birthday is this. Y'all request the transfer thing for the athlete and it gets switched over through the usasf website whatever birth certificate they have entered goes. She doesn't get to see it to confirm or deny it.



At the beginning of last season we were having a lot of athletes from a surrounding gym show up in tumbling classes. She informed me most of their parents said their kids were trying out but their gym still had a team of two go to the one finals and they were just finishing out the season but switching. So when I saw what teams of theirs was going (maybe it's only 1 team that went??) I texted her and said hey do you have the tryout stuff at your house. She said yeah... I said I recall seeing the paper from level 3 tryouts (teams weren't completed yet- but I kind of helped with registration on tryout day. 1- name tags/ head shots so I kind of knew the girls) but beside the list of names of level 3 it said what the kid would be eligible for that season. So by my kid it said like youth, junior (she wasn't eligible for senior last year) beside another girl who was 10 already it said (youth, junior, senior) beside the girl i was questioning it said junior, senior.
I said I know Susie is only able to compete junior senior for us but can you look at her birthday and tell me if she would of been youth age for this season that is ending.

The owner had no clue why I was asking, and just confirmed her birthday to show me she was only junior, senior eligible. Before the owner had got back to me I already done my own fbi research and found posts where people told her happy 12bithday like a year before, and before the cut off day.

So I found out, and while I did tell a few of my coach friends, and someone that was there. I really had no luck.. I mean we were getting the kid but it really made me look down on the gym doing that.

I just don't know why people have to cheat, they knew the girl was underage. They just put her on for the one comp just to help out. I guess to pad their score! [emoji19] but if they will do it once they definitely wouldn't hesitate about doing it again


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Wow, you're good.

@incognitocheermom That's foul. Reminds me of a kid I once her of, who came from the Dominican Republic to play on a youth baseball team and was told to lie about his age (he was several years too old for the team,but they wanted him because he had a really fast pitch).

Sad that many people don't care about being an actual winner anymore.

 

[TheVipersMom]

I'm still convinced that out first gym used the birth certificates of athletes who were no longer with the gym to register certain kids for comps (this was before USASF registration). Their use of illegal athletes was one of the myriad of reasons we left. When an athlete on a junior team is handing out invitations to her Sweet 16, you know it's time.

Also this!!!

I know of someone from an old gym and I didn't put 2 and 2 together till later in the season. She was on senior 4 and I was friendly with this girl- an athlete couldn't compete at a comp for some reason and that girl was on j3 that couldn't compete. They asked the s4 girl to fill in and she did amazing. That night I said wow you did great on that j3 team especially for just learning it y'all were awesome. She said I know. I was all up front in jumps but I was trying not to jump as high as I normally do.
I remember questioning it.. And I said so what you are filling in on a team girl you better jump!! You worked so hard on your amazing jumps. She goes I know I just wasn't trying to stand out since that's not my team. I just remember thinking ok whatever ... Lol

A couple months later she posted her drivers license how she finally got it after waiting blah Blah blah. I then had a light bulb go off.. And that seemingly weird conversation made sense!! She had been 16 competing on juniors... The gym didn't doctor one for her age- she just took the floor instead of the missing rostered athlete that couldn't be there.

So unless they are checking photo ID and birth certificate as they take the floor there is no way to say the gym isn't using an old birth certificate or just switching out athletes.


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[SL&AM]

We had to have a photo id to check in before heading to warmups. I think since everyone has to register with USASF now, there's no real need for the coach to carry the BC since the EP should have access to that.

That is definitely a downfall of the USASF reporting system. Once shoved, the gym has no reason to question the info they've been given and if they transfer gyms the new gym probably doesn't think to check. Maybe a 2 step ID requirement should be enacted. Faking a birth certificate seems easy enough, but faking a state ID or school record seems a bit harder.



*The day Susie was not full of sunshine.*

 

[cheer25mom]

We had a local gym that did this. Went as far as to put known college aged coaches on a senior team (they were NOT super seniors. We are talking 19 or older). A child I taught who I knew was turning 16 was on a junior team. When they finally got caught,they just changed those teams to exhibition only, claiming they subbed for an injury and didn't know the rule. Those kids had been on the teams since day 1.

 

[Eyes On The Prize]

Altering a birth certificate or falsifying it is illegal. So if the competition/gym catches a parent submitting an altered BC, then there is a bigger issue than sending back a trophy. They should remove that family from their organization and turn them in. That would be the responsible thing to do.

It's the responsibility of the gym to collect all necessary paperwork for all athletes. Not having the documents because an athlete transferred is not an excuse. It is also the responsibility of the gym, to the best of their ability, to make sure they are given the correct documents and information. If the gym knowingly submits a false document, then it's the gym's fault. In no other situation, other than the parents submitting a false BC w/o the gym knowing, is it not the gyms fault. Gyms have responsibilities. If they aren't following through on their responsibilities, then they're at fault.

 

[123jump4!]

When CP switched gyms she was already registered on the USASF site but the new gym still wanted to see her BC.

 

[tumbleyoda]

This used to happen way more than we like to admit. Many years ago a gym closed in NC behind this exact same thing, Thankfully it has gotten better but it still happens. Kudos to NCA for dealing with in a positive manner.

Let me throw another possible situation out there that has happened to us. (This definitely was not the case with NCA - just noting that there can be guilt on many sides of the issue) One of the big parental issues in paying so much for this sport is not having anyone to compete against. So EP's are in a bind as well when things happen to cause a team to pull out. In our situation we had a girl sick the weekend of competition. Could not compete. We went to the EP asking to let them exhibition so we could put a Jr age eligible athlete on the team for that event. She was on the Worlds team. We did not want it to be an unfair advantage over other teams having an athlete that was obviously higher skilled, even though she was in the right age range. The EP did not want us to exhibition because it meant teams in that division would of had less teams to compete against. So we offered to pay the money at that moment to put them in the Sr division. Again it was denied for the same reason plus it would be too much work to change it. HUH? Leave it to say that after our coaches and owners taking with the other coaches in the division, we were allowed to exhibition, so it did not mess up the other teams opportunities and that we did not get hit with the dreaded sandbagging athletes charge.

FTR I don't believe that EP is around anymore either.

 

[quietmom]

I am glad that NCA is taking a stance against this and is actually doing something. I like seeing gyms get held accountable for this type of behavior. Too bad they can't really hold parents and athletes publicly accountable for falsifying birth certificates and have a cheater hall of shame without having to deal with a bunch of lawsuits or other legal issues..............

 

[mollymags]

Last season, my gym's Y2 was awarded a higher placement a couple of weeks after an event because the winning team was disqualified for having an athlete that was too old. The team from my gym went from 3rd to 2nd and received a new banner with the correct placement... We talked to the gym that went from 2nd to 1st and they received new awards and their national champion apparel. Because the disqualification happened after the event, the results had already been posted with the cheating team as 1st place, but were later updated so they were removed and everyone else's placements adjusted accordingly.

But, I always wonder how that was handled internally in the gym that cheated. Did they actually own up to it? Who is really checking results a few weeks after the event to catch that update? How easy would it have been for them to get away without ever actually telling the families on that team/within the gym? No EP is going to post outright who cheated and why- customer relations, and for the sake of the other kids on the team who were innocent (I'll bet you most of the people cheating are very sneaky about it and train the kids not to tell anyone their real age, so there have to be kids that were oblivious to the whole thing). I will note that while the gym in question doesn't look as strong this year as they have in the past, they have definitely retained or gained kids despite any "scandal."

 

[CoachCeleste]

But if there is a BC available on the spot, it makes things much quicker. Or some sort of official list from the EP, who has seen a copy of the BC. That may be cumbersome for them, though. It was really easy for me as a TM to have my binder with each BC and a photo of each child.

I personally carry a copy of every athlete's BC on competition day, even though EP's have access to them. If we are ever questioned (for any reason), I have proof of age in my bag.

I mainly do it for peace of mind. I carry around a lot of things to prepare for any cheer competition catastrophe.

 

[Official OWECheer]

This used to happen way more than we like to admit. Many years ago a gym closed in NC behind this exact same thing, Thankfully it has gotten better but it still happens. Kudos to NCA for dealing with in a positive manner.

Let me throw another possible situation out there that has happened to us. (This definitely was not the case with NCA - just noting that there can be guilt on many sides of the issue) One of the big parental issues in paying so much for this sport is not having anyone to compete against. So EP's are in a bind as well when things happen to cause a team to pull out. In our situation we had a girl sick the weekend of competition. Could not compete. We went to the EP asking to let them exhibition so we could put a Jr age eligible athlete on the team for that event. She was on the Worlds team. We did not want it to be an unfair advantage over other teams having an athlete that was obviously higher skilled, even though she was in the right age range. The EP did not want us to exhibition because it meant teams in that division would of had less teams to compete against. So we offered to pay the money at that moment to put them in the Sr division. Again it was denied for the same reason plus it would be too much work to change it. HUH? Leave it to say that after our coaches and owners taking with the other coaches in the division, we were allowed to exhibition, so it did not mess up the other teams opportunities and that we did not get hit with the dreaded sandbagging athletes charge.

FTR I don't believe that EP is around anymore either.

Very interesting.

 

[rdavis4]

When CP switched gyms she was already registered on the USASF site but the new gym still wanted to see her BC.

Same here!

 

[rdavis4]

Ok so I have a question; a bit off topic but with all the BC stuff it has me curious....
So last year was our first year of cheer. Were told that we needed to register with USASF, etc. I did. We were at a competition later in the year when a team that we competed against were clearly not tiny age. I asked one of our owners about it and she was like well they have to register, etc. so I know they are the right age. But at our first comp. a mom on our team was freaking out because she didn't know she had to register her daughter. That same owner told her that it wasn't a big deal and that she didn't even have her own daughter registered!

So fast forward a year...we are at a new gym and things are so different! I transferred CP over on USASF, but the owner still wanted a copy of her BC. She also wanted their USASF card. She said she takes them to all comps so they can check them in or whatever.
So...with all the new screeners and stuff taking place this year, if kids aren't registered with USASF is anyone really checking into that? According to a friend who stayed at our former gym, not all of the kids on that team are registered again this year. Maybe because it's tiny no one really cares? I'm assuming at some point this will hurt the gym/kids/parents.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I don't know why in cheer the TM or coach doesn't have a copy of birth certificates with them at comps. We had to do that for football and baseball. I had a couple of times where the other coach would question the age of one of our players and we had to show the league coordinator the BC of the child. It should be the same in cheer.

Yep. I have to provide that for my kid in order to play soccer and the coaching staff has to be able to produce if there is a question as to his age!

I know I use pageant examples often, but I have one former pageant competitor godchild who is VERY SMALL for her age. She is 9 and 20th percentile for height and weight (grandma and dad are small people.) She looks like a first grader.

Well, back when she competed in pageants, mom always packed the birth certificate (most require it but some people do not bring it because they assume there won't be a problem.) At 5 years old, she was so small that she legit looked THREE. So they'd show up, register in the 4-5 division and get the side eye because the directors did not believe she was really 5. They thought we were trying to sneak a three year old into an age bracket with fewer kids!

Happens a lot in that activity. Some kids are legit small or big for their ages. Others are cheating.

Reminds me of the "There is no way that kid is 12!" that some kids get in the cheer world.