All-Star Number Of Crossovers/stacking Teams

[quitthedrama]

There is a big difference between crossing over kids 1 level up or down and stacking level 1-3 teams with level 5 athletes, and almost always you can point out the gyms that are stacking teams. I have no problem with crossovers when used appropriately (filling spots, giving an athlete a chance to fly/base at the appropriate level) - I'm guessing that was the original intention of crossovers. Unfortunately the lack of rules regarding crossovers has led to abuse, and now gyms almost have to put athletes from higher levels on lower levels just to be competitive. USASF had the opportunity to limit the abuse and chose not to.

 

[cupieqt]

Kris10boo the scenarios you described are acceptable IMO. I run a small program and these things happen. If I can't re-work a routine without an athlete I will ask a former athlete to fill in. If I can't find one, I look for a crossover. It's option C for me but it is STILL a good choice if it keeps my team competitive.
I have had to use more Crossovers than I ever wanted to this year due to a hit we took in numbers at tryouts. We have overcome that drop with creativity, communication (with other awesome small team coaches) and CROSSOVERS.

I am not against crossovers in general. I have to be given a specific scenario to have an opinion about whether it's a negative or positive. I always try to understand where another gym or coach is coming from before I pass judgement.

 

[CoachTamara]

I do not have a problem with crossovers at all.

The thing is we have a jr3 team and the owner didn't ask them to cross down she asked mini1 to cross up. So now 4 of our 15 youth kids came from mini's. If they started placing restrictions on cross overs they could really hurt smaller gyms!

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with my cp crossing over!

I don't have a problem with crossovers as much as I do the abuse of it. We are a very small gym, and we have two crossovers. A youth that crosses to juniors to fly, and another that crosses over to backspot. Both were level 2 kids at the beginning of the year (which we did not have) and wanted to be on an easier team with their friends. Both have now gotten level 3 skills and love both teams.
However, this weekend we were on the awards floor and noticed that there were about 50 kids on the floor from this gym that beat us. They are amazing-I have no problem saying that. Every routine was clean and on point. They had 5 teams at the competition, and their youth team had 32 people on it. I saw many kids on three teams, and as I said before, senior 4 kids that walked off the floor right to the youth 1 team. That is ridiculous to me, and I would hope those children know that winning like that is not winning, and I blame nobody but their owners and coaches that think this is ok. There is a HUGE difference between using a few crossovers and creating teams that are almost entirely crossovers just to have another win.

 

[cupieqt]

What if they don't win? Is it a problem if their teams are dead last?
Im just curious if anybody notices them as much if the gyms teams stink it up.

 

[TheVipersMom]

There is a big difference between crossing over kids 1 level up or down and stacking level 1-3 teams with level 5 athletes, and almost always you can point out the gyms that are stacking teams. I have no problem with crossovers when used appropriately (filling spots, giving an athlete a chance to fly/base at the appropriate level) - I'm guessing that was the original intention of crossovers. Unfortunately the lack of rules regarding crossovers has led to abuse, and now gyms almost have to put athletes from higher levels on lower levels just to be competitive. USASF had the opportunity to limit the abuse and chose not to.

I understand what your saying and do agree with you but my response about my cp was more towards the person who started the thread saying level 5 athletes going to level 4.. Which is the same thing as my athlete crossing from level 2 to 1. Yes levels 4 and 5 are more prestigious but it's still the exact same thing.

& I would dare someone say we are stacking our mini team because my level 2 athlete is on it. She does not make much of a difference having level 2 skills because she isn't using them. My cp is only in her 2nd season and was just a tiny last season. There are kids on mini's who did the tiny team for 2 years and are now in their 3rd year as a mini for a total of 5 years because they don't have level 2 skills to move up. I'd have to say they are a bigger asset to the mini team then my cp is but just because she is crossing down 1 level (like the original poster is referring to) then we must be stacking our team. Maybe she isn't referring to level 1&2 teams but honestly they are no different then crossing level 4&5. It's still 1 level and no one knows why in the world those kids are crossing level 5 to 4.

 

[MissCongeniality]

I do not have a problem with crossovers at all.

My cp as everyone knows is 6. She is a solid level 2 tumbler. We don't have a mini 2 so she she does mini 1 to be with kids her age. She then does youth 2 to be with kids her skill level. All the level 2 kids on youth treat her so nice and they are good to her but they are not her age so that's why she does mini's.

My cp flys on youth 2 but she was told up front she will not fly on mini's to give others the chance to fly. Her flyer is bigger then her but she definitely deserves that spot. Our youth 2 is already really small and our mini team is the largest mini team I have ever seen at a competition. So yes they would have an easier time without her on mini's then youth would but she does not want to quit mini's.

The first day the teams were put together my cp was the only crossover to youth. Then after the first practice several girls who have never cheered before decided they wanted to quit. So the owner allowed one other kid who is 8 from mini's to crossover.

They were the only two. However in the last 3 weeks our team of 15 came down to 13 as 2 people quit..
We compete in less then 2 weeks so we have to add 2 more crossovers to fill holes and stunts. We have 2 more mini's that were asked to cross up. They have a back handspring but its not real solid as they just got it. We are not using those 2 girls to fly.. They are just bases. They are filling the holes the other 2 girls left and they just had the 1st practice on Thursday since they joined the team. I'm so nervous now.

The thing is we have a jr3 team and the owner didn't ask them to cross down she asked mini1 to cross up. So now 4 of our 15 youth kids came from mini's. If they started placing restrictions on cross overs they could really hurt smaller gyms!

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with my cp crossing over!

I don't think anyone has a problem with a situation like you are describing. THAT is survival for the smaller gyms. My CP crossed for years. I think what is frustrating people here are teams that have half their level 5 team cross to their level 2 team, teams that have a team made up of all but 2 or 3 (yes 17 or 18 crossovers!) non-crossovers, teams that have the same 5-6 flyers on their level 2, 3, 4 and 5 teams.

 

[LuvCheerBows]

from my perspective- crossovers can make or break a small gym. This is our first year using crossovers and it has made us so much more successful. We do not use crossovers to sandbag, and no one crosses more than one level up or down, but we do use them to fill in teams. For example, we had a small number of kids who are a solid Youth 1 skill wise. Instead of pushing them onto the next higher team- Junior 2, we filled in the youth team with Mini 2 crossovers. it's worked out great.

I can understand crossing over one level down in a situation where you don't have a choice. I was at MD State competition this past weekend, and I feel that Twisters competed against teams that were in Indianna last weekend. The teams made out pretty good. What I don't understand is how the same teams/gym, competed this weekend and added level five athletes to almost every level. I feel that it was done to strengthen your teams. I think that that is not giving any credit to the athletes on the team who actually are at that skill level. It shows dought in your athletes that really belong on the team. the one thing about Twisters is that their teams are actually made up by skill set. It's only fair!

 

[LuvCheerBows]

I feel that their should be a rule in place where you can't cross over beneath your skill set. Maybe from a senior team to JR, or Youth to mini. They should pay attention to the rosters to see how many times one athlete name appears and what the different levels are. Crossing over one level down may not be so bad. Especially for smaller gyms, but to go from level five down to levels 1 and 2 is absolutely insain

 

[icecheermom]

At our old gym we had an entire team of crossovers!! They would let kids cheer for free and it was just BAD. I agree with cheerinthenews that people will eventually wise up. Needless to say this gym is no longer around, they actually ran 2 gyms in the ground. Took off with the fundraising money, charged cards after the doors were closed, and had a news story on them. Oh it was crazy!

 

[Kyle.Ing]

Last time I checked, Illusion has a large number of level 5 crossovers? Just noticing, and knowledge from my friends in the program.

 

[AndrewSky]

Last time I checked, Illusion has a large number of level 5 crossovers? Just noticing, and knowledge from my friends in the program.

You must be noticing something that isn't there. We had one crossover at the first competition, she is no longer with us. Everyone else is a true level 4 kid. You can check the roster. . I wouldn't complain if we did it ourselves!

 

[redsmom]

I can understand crossing over one level down in a situation where you don't have a choice. I was at MD State competition this past weekend, and I feel that Twisters competed against teams that were in Indianna last weekend. The teams made out pretty good. What I don't understand is how the same teams/gym, competed this weekend and added level five athletes to almost every level. I feel that it was done to strengthen your teams. I think that that is not giving any credit to the athletes on the team who actually are at that skill level. It shows dought in your athletes that really belong on the team. the one thing about Twisters is that their teams are actually made up by skill set. It's only fair!

I wasn't at the comp this weekend, so I don't know what happened, although I understand the outcome of a couple of divisions was different then it was in Indy. First of all let me say I bleed black and blue, will always love my twister family. Second, the rules with respect to crossovers in Indy was not different then at MD States, so if teams were stacked specifically for this competition that would be surprising (not impossible, but why not stack them for the bigger competition?). Finally, until the rules are changed it is what it is. Sometimes things just don't go your way and the great thing about being with an organization like twisters is that you learn how to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and work even harder to make things go your way next time.

That said, I would LOVE to see stricter rules on crossovers. I think there can be appropriate limited use of crossovers and maybe NCA nationals is a little to restrictive for every EP and every gym, but I'd like to see something closer to that model.

 

[Diamondlifex2]

Last time I checked, Illusion has a large number of level 5 crossovers? Just noticing, and knowledge from my friends in the program.

Wow if that's true, that would be the pot calling the kettle black...ijs

 

[AndrewSky]

Wow if that's true, that would be the pot calling the kettle black...ijs

Did you not read my response? Lol

 

[Diamondlifex2]

Did you not read my response? Lol

I was typing while you were responding, my bad.