High School Tryout Season

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

We use outside judges. We've had MAJOR issues in the past where the coaches judge and little Suzie didn't make the team and the parent going straight to the administration saying the coach doesn't like her and chose favorites. Even went to the superintendent once. So we use outside judges to avoid this happening.

Why not just say "you're right, I don't like your kid and I don't want her on the team because she's uncoachable?"

Outside judges are a scapegoat for people who don't have the guts to stand up and say "I made this decision for this reason." If it's because the kid didn't deserve to be on the team, so be it. If it's because the coach ran a shady tryout, that's on the coach.

 

[Cheerfun2]

(Disclaimer, not a coach, just the parent of an AS cheerleader and now a HS cheerleader next year.)
This is a fascinating discussion. I am fully supportive of coaches running the team the way they want to...makes sense. HOWEVER, there seems to be a bit of contradiction from what I am reading here. On the one hand, we have experienced, dedicated, coaches who know what is needed to put together a team. On the other hand, you have coaches changing the results of judging to fill the team with the kids they want. As parents, how are we to know what situation we are letting our child step into?
Chemistry is a real thing, and it can be subtle. It is human nature to have likes and dislikes, and it is hard to choose a more talented athlete you don't care for over an athlete you have known and liked for years. To me, the thought of unbiased, unaffiliated judges ranking the athletes seems undeniably fair, and frankly keeps the results legitimate to everyone. At most schools, kids know who is talented. If a very talented kid gets cut and a lesser athlete makes it...it looks bad. Unaffiliated judges with a firm scoring rubric should remove that threat.

Honestly, I think all school sports should use outside judges. Tryout controversies aren't limited to cheer...there are problems in every sport. The key, to prevent having to deal with lazy, attitude-problem, athletes is to enforce firm rules and have alternates at the ready. Kick them off if necessary, but if they are the most talented they should get the opportunity to be on the team.

 

[cheerisloving]

(Disclaimer, not a coach, just the parent of an AS cheerleader and now a HS cheerleader next year.)
This is a fascinating discussion. I am fully supportive of coaches running the team the way they want to...makes sense. HOWEVER, there seems to be a bit of contradiction from what I am reading here. On the one hand, we have experienced, dedicated, coaches who know what is needed to put together a team. On the other hand, you have coaches changing the results of judging to fill the team with the kids they want. As parents, how are we to know what situation we are letting our child step into?
Chemistry is a real thing, and it can be subtle. It is human nature to have likes and dislikes, and it is hard to choose a more talented athlete you don't care for over an athlete you have known and liked for years. To me, the thought of unbiased, unaffiliated judges ranking the athletes seems undeniably fair, and frankly keeps the results legitimate to everyone. At most schools, kids know who is talented. If a very talented kid gets cut and a lesser athlete makes it...it looks bad. Unaffiliated judges with a firm scoring rubric should remove that threat.

Honestly, I think all school sports should use outside judges. Tryout controversies aren't limited to cheer...there are problems in every sport. The key, to prevent having to deal with lazy, attitude-problem, athletes is to enforce firm rules and have alternates at the ready. Kick them off if necessary, but if they are the most talented they should get the opportunity to be on the team.

Outside judging in my opinion is never the last word. I think a coach is right to get some fresh eyes to re-evaluate candidates but coaches should be the ones who choose.

Just because Suzie has a bad day but otherwise be an amazing cheerleader. I don't think a judge that has never seen someone perform before should be the one who decides their fate. Coaches should step in and say---okay I know that was bad but I also know this kid's ability.

 

[coacha]

To me, the thought of unbiased, unaffiliated judges ranking the athletes seems undeniably fair, and frankly keeps the results legitimate to everyone. At most schools, kids know who is talented. If a very talented kid gets cut and a lesser athlete makes it...it looks bad. Unaffiliated judges with a firm scoring rubric should remove that threat.

Honestly, I think all school sports should use out, side judges. Tryout controversies aren't limited to cheer...there are problems in every sport. The key, to prevent having to deal with lazy, attitude-problem, athletes is to enforce firm rules and have alternates at the ready. Kick them off if necessary, but if they are the most talented they should get the opportunity to be on the team.

But the point is, a lot of teams out there use those outside judges to give the appearance of fair, unaffiliated judging to make the parents happy, and then ignore the results and do whatever they want anyhow. I'm actually being more forthcoming by telling my parents that our coaching staff are the judges. We are putting the teams together the way we see fit, with the full backing of my AD - just like every other sport.

And if the lazy, attitude problem athlete is an issue all season, why should I have to put her back on the team the following year when there are more dedicated athletes who may be slightly less talented but want to be there and do the work? I don't want to put her on team (taking the place of someone who now has to be cut) and end up kicking her off. That's a waste of everyone's time.

Trust me, the team is a direct reflection of my coaching. I want to put the best athletes on the team.

 

[cheer25mom]

(Disclaimer, not a coach, just the parent of an AS cheerleader and now a HS cheerleader next year.)
This is a fascinating discussion. I am fully supportive of coaches running the team the way they want to...makes sense. HOWEVER, there seems to be a bit of contradiction from what I am reading here. On the one hand, we have experienced, dedicated, coaches who know what is needed to put together a team. On the other hand, you have coaches changing the results of judging to fill the team with the kids they want. As parents, how are we to know what situation we are letting our child step into?
Chemistry is a real thing, and it can be subtle. It is human nature to have likes and dislikes, and it is hard to choose a more talented athlete you don't care for over an athlete you have known and liked for years. To me, the thought of unbiased, unaffiliated judges ranking the athletes seems undeniably fair, and frankly keeps the results legitimate to everyone. At most schools, kids know who is talented. If a very talented kid gets cut and a lesser athlete makes it...it looks bad. Unaffiliated judges with a firm scoring rubric should remove that threat.

Honestly, I think all school sports should use outside judges. Tryout controversies aren't limited to cheer...there are problems in every sport. The key, to prevent having to deal with lazy, attitude-problem, athletes is to enforce firm rules and have alternates at the ready. Kick them off if necessary, but if they are the most talented they should get the opportunity to be on the team.

From a fellow parent:
You cannot build a team off raw talent alone, particularly a high school team. Doing that with an eye to kicking off the kids who don't deliver is wasting everyone's time and effort. I am definitely generalizing here , but its what I find to be true.
1. Many highly talented girls expect to fly. A team of 16 with 10 talented flyers who don't know jack about basing will not work. You may have to cut Sally "I only fly" who has a layout for Suzy "I'm happy to base" who only has a BHS because its what is best to build a strong TEAM. You can only really establish this by watching kids stunt over a period of time. It would be very difficult to judge in a "one and done" type tryout with outside judges. The most talented kid is not always the best fit for the position you are trying to fill. Same is true for other sports. A football team with 15 quarterbacks and 3 linemen is in real trouble even if those quarterbacks were the most talented kids that tried out.

2. Attitude and work ethic can make or break a team and SHOULD be a large part of who makes a team. You KNOW all star coaches take it into consideration when they make a team, school coaches would be nuts not to. If a girl is known to have a poor work ethic and be a drama starter, I would think as a parent you would support eliminating that disruptive influence from the team, no matter how talented the kid. No kid should be placed on a team when a coach knows they will only drag the team down.

 

[Cheerfun2]

I totally agree with all of you in the examples shown above, and obviously I don't have 1st hand knowledge of any of this-my kid made the team-but I just really feel strongly about fairness. And if coaches are changing the scores of unaffiliated judges....well, that just seems wrong. The kid might not have a sparkly personality bc her parents are getting a divorce or she is struggling with depression or something and cheer might just be the thing that helps her. If a coach just doesn't like her, she'll never get that chance no matter how talented she is.

Sorry, I'm rambling, I also wonder why school cheer requires a teacher rec but other sports don't? My older son has played several Varsity sports & teacher recs weren't part of the tryout. I find that annoying. They all should require them if it is important. And again, it wouldn't bother me at all if all sports tryouts were judged by outsiders, football included. Would never happen, but there is certainly drama in all sports tryouts and I think unaffiliated judges help with that.

 

[cheerisloving]

I totally agree with all of you in the examples shown above, and obviously I don't have 1st hand knowledge of any of this-my kid made the team-but I just really feel strongly about fairness. And if coaches are changing the scores of unaffiliated judges....well, that just seems wrong. The kid might not have a sparkly personality bc her parents are getting a divorce or she is struggling with depression or something and cheer might just be the thing that helps her. If a coach just doesn't like her, she'll never get that chance no matter how talented she is..

This situation hits home because it happened to me. Outside judge came in and said i wasn't a right fit and I never got to talk to the coach about what was going on and she took it as a degression in skills. It was earth shattering to not make it because cheer was my safe place.

 

[Cheerfun2]

This situation hits home because it happened to me. Outside judge came in and said i wasn't a right fit and I never got to talk to my coach about what was going on and she took it as a degression in skills. It was earth shattering to not make it because cheer was my safe place.

I'm so sorry. That hurts my heart to hear.

 

[cheerisloving]

I'm so sorry. That hurts my heart to hear.

Thanks :/ there were other things that made it harder but the door isn't completely closed so that helps a lot.

I appreciate a coach that is open to second chances.

 

[tojofasho]

At the end of the day, there is no perfect answer to how cheer tryouts should be judged.

In my personal opinion, it is total BS that cheer is the only sport required to bring in outside judges (yes, at my district, it is required). If every sport required it, I would be fine with the whole situation. As it is, I am incredibly annoyed each year.

At the end of the day, coaches know what is best for their team. Period. Yes, there are going to be coaches who abuse their power, but that is (and this is being generous) 10% of all coaches and is not restricted solely to cheer. So why is cheer the only one who has to deal with this stigma if it happens in every sport?

For the most part, coaches are not going to sabotage their program on purpose - that would just make them look bad. They will select the athletes that will make the team, the school, and the coaches look best in the eyes of all who see them. Sometimes that means the most talented individuals, sometimes it means the hardest working individuals, and sometimes it means cutting a girl who is absolutely amazing but who brings about 95% of the team's drama. I promise that for every spot there is a reason that person made it, and for every cut there is a reason for that as well.

As a coach, yes, I have favorites. My favorites are exclusively those who work hard and try every single day to improve on their skills. It is so easy to become my favorite - work hard and don't complain. I always want my favorites to make the team, and usually if they aren't good enough for Varsity I will find a place for them on JV so they can put their dedication to work. But at the end of the day, I do know what I am doing, I do know what makes a successful team, and I wish parents would trust that I'm not "out to get" their child. I literally just want to have a successful year with my program. That's my only goal here.

#endrant

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

You would never ask a basketball coach to use a panel to pick the Varsity team.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Also, I will say that I agree with you in terms of extra stuff like recs/essays/etc.

You will NEVER see a football coach requiring "Why I want to be a football player" essay.

That's silly.

 

[OldskoolKYcheercoach]

You will also never see any other coach try to pick a team in a single day. No basketball coach says "ok, learn this offensive set, this defensive position, and this inbounds play over the next three days while I half-booty pay attention, then on Saturday we will see if you remember it well enough to make the team."

 

[CoachTamara]

This year 10% will be a score from me, and 90% with me an outside panel judging them on a cheer, dance, jumps, and tumbling.

This is the first year I've had a say, and I believe it's important. I am not "out to get" any child, but I also think that if you've been on the team and caused a lot of problems, it should be taken into account. It's not a make or break, but it counts. It says a lot when none of the parents, coaches or other cheerleaders want you on the team. My 10% will not cut them by itself, but it will ensure they need to step it up and understand that making it is NOT a given when you cause problems in previous years. I evaluate all of them, and I think overall I am more than lenient with my scores. If anything, I'm too generous, especially for kids I don't know very well. Just because I heard someone doesn't like you doesn't impact me-I use what you've SHOWN me.

As far as sideline, skill doesn't matter. It just doesn't. I can teach stunting and cheers and show you how to do motions properly. I'm looking at the kids that learned the cheer, and then went home and actually practiced it. And not just practiced it, but practiced it until they couldn't get it wrong because making the team was THAT important to them. I want those kids, and that's what I tell the judges I'm looking for. My sideline teams needs to have the kids that are excited, happy to be there and want to work hard.

I can worry about skills for my comp try-outs, where I have much less drama because they practice more and are on the same page as far as their goals.

Edit: we don't do teacher recommendations or essays that count for making the team. There is a mandatory parent meeting before the clinics begin, and they must attend that. They get an application they turn in, but it's mostly for me to read and doesn't actually count toward their try out.

 

[Twinklestars]

My cp is a senior. Her freshman year, they had to do the whole essay, teacher recs, and an additional essay if you wanted to be considered for captain.

That is all gone. There is a mandatory pre-tryout meeting for which you have to have turned in your packet with a signed cheer contract (parent signature required) a few days prior. A parent must attend the meeting with the cheerleader candidate.

Of course, at the meeting, not all the girls who completed the contract showed up. We had the number we were "allowed" to have and the coach canceled tryouts and took everyone. Only one of the girls has no prior cheer experience. She is struggling a bit to learn the cheers, but it seems like we have one of those every year.