All-Star Who would be in favor of an Open 4 division?

[Drkilluzionz]

I think putting these level 3/4 athletes on a level 5 or 6 team brings up a few counter productive things. It first and formeost has them training stunts and tumbling they may not be ready for which is a safety issue...and Worlds aside theres plenty of level 5 and 6 teams across the country that while they may not be Worlds competitors have at least squad fulls and are well rounded teams why make teams that are grossly disadvantaged? And I know there are those that would try to push, up skills and advance too quickly...I cant even imagine having to teach a double full basket to to someone whose most advanced basket was a toe touch or kick full...thats when I think crazy coaching and unrealistic goals come into play.

I see it at my own gym and I see it a lot at other gyms I travel to and do camps or choreography at...Kids who've graduated and are going to the local college or university one of which may not have a program and the other whose program lacks organization and structure, or sometimes even just a matter of scheduling and time constraints.

Shutitdown...how does this division effect the large senior and unlimited coed divisions?

 

[CGAcheer]

I think you're assuming there's this great untapped resource of cheerleaders who want to compete after seniors but can't because they don't have the skills or don't have a college cheer team in their area. Maybe there is, but I just don't see it.. Many people forget that allstars is EXPENSIVE..maybe some of you have parents who would chip in for it, but many of us college kids don't have the cash flow, never mind the time/inclination to cheer on a college team with a more rigorous schedule. I barely scraped by the one year I did open..The kids on my team were from a variety of skill levels, many however did/were doing college cheerleading at the time. Did they have the tumbling, no. But we threw straight up stunts and 2 1/2 high pyramids and got by just fine.

there were a lot of others with this same basic statement.
Isn't Level 6 supposed to be the top level? Instead its a 4.2 for older people, because there isn't a lower level option.

as it is now whether you have a toss chair and a back handspring or a rewind and standing full, if you want to continue cheering its gotta be level 6

 

[alliebby33]

IMO, I think this would be a bad idea.

This division specifically would hurt lvl 6 immensely. There are often very few teams in 6 at any comp and creating this level would eliminate any type of competition in this division. I'm sure there are teams out their who would fit perfectly into this division, there are infinite division we could make to cater to everyone, but that would be detrimental to the sport as a whole.

I don't think it would hurt level 6 because it would make both divisions more competitive. If there were 5 amazing open 4 teams and 5 amazing open 6 teams, you'd never know who was going to win, making both divisions a whole lot more fun and exciting to watch and to be in.

 

[AcaseA]

I don't think it would hurt level 6 because it would make both divisions more competitive. If there were 5 amazing open 4 teams and 5 amazing open 6 teams, you'd never know who was going to win, making both divisions a whole lot more fun and exciting to watch and to be in.

You are assuming that there would be 10 level 6 teams at a comp. From my experience as a level 6 athlete I have never seen more than 5 teams in a level 6 division. Last year many of my comps had 2 or 3 teams. If we split it up even more I would have no competition.

 

[Audrey]

I think this is a great idea. I'm a junior in high school but I'm a lower level cheerleader. I sometimes worry about how I can cheer after high school because I don't think I could hang with an international 5 or 6 team and I prefer all stars over school. I'm sure I'm not alone and this level would make it easier for many people in a similar situation to continue cheering.
As for watering down the competition, I think it would help level 6 because more people would be encouraged to keep going and eventually progress to level 6. People are saying that athletes wouldn't progress by practicing once a week/month but I'm sure there are many people who would take privates and go to open gyms so they could develop higher level skills.

 

[ztaprincess]

I want to ask this question. How many people who have commented about this being a bad idea have graduated or will graduate at a level 3 or 4? If you do/have then are you saying if you wanted to continue cheering you would rather be on a team with severe safety issues or you would have to be hidden so your lack of skills isn't as noticable? Doesn't make sense to me. I would want to be on a team where I can standout and shine because my true skills can be performed. People are so worried about level 5 athletes but what about the majority of the cheer world that are NOT level 5?

The argument was brought up that those teams are full of adults with full time jobs and they practice once a month so how are they going to advance. The argument can be used to prove that some teams SHOULD NOT be competeing level 6. If they practice once a month with people who are around a level 4 that is causing safety issues because it takes more then a handful of practices to become a level 6 athlete that knows what they are doing correctly.

 

[ShutItDown]

I think putting these level 3/4 athletes on a level 5 or 6 team brings up a few counter productive things. It first and formeost has them training stunts and tumbling they may not be ready for which is a safety issue...and Worlds aside theres plenty of level 5 and 6 teams across the country that while they may not be Worlds competitors have at least squad fulls and are well rounded teams why make teams that are grossly disadvantaged? And I know there are those that would try to push, up skills and advance too quickly...I cant even imagine having to teach a double full basket to to someone whose most advanced basket was a toe touch or kick full...thats when I think crazy coaching and unrealistic goals come into play.

I see it at my own gym and I see it a lot at other gyms I travel to and do camps or choreography at...Kids who've graduated and are going to the local college or university one of which may not have a program and the other whose program lacks organization and structure, or sometimes even just a matter of scheduling and time constraints.

Shutitdown...how does this division effect the large senior and unlimited coed divisions?

it doesnt. my point was adding more and more divisions is taking away from other divisions...like my level 6 thread i started. everyone said they loved level 6 and wouldnt want to see it go at all, so why would the same people be willing to say they want to take away from a level 6 division. i like your comment about college, but really i dont want to see anymore divisions.

 

[Ariel]

I understand your points & see where a lot of you who are for this division are coming from. BUT, I still don't think this division would be popular enough, big enough, for it to really be successful. As much as I am against 4.2 & SR Open 5, there's no denying that lots & lots of gyms have created these teams & the divisions themselves are doing quite well. I could see maybe some gyms who have "weaker" Open 6 teams changing them to "Open 4" but lots of coaches/gym owners on here have expressed their frustrations with open teams in general, not enough commitment because of jobs, college, etc, I just don't see many more gyms that don't already have a "weaker" open 6 team adopting this division. Yes, it might weed out the scary open 6 teams, but there's not even enough of those to create a new division that I think would flourish.

 

[CGAcheer]

I understand your points & see where a lot of you who are for this division are coming from. BUT, I still don't think this division would be popular enough, big enough, for it to really be successful. As much as I am against 4.2 & SR Open 5, there's no denying that lots & lots of gyms have created these teams & the divisions themselves are doing quite well. I could see maybe some gyms who have "weaker" Open 6 teams changing them to "Open 4" but lots of coaches/gym owners on here have expressed their frustrations with open teams in general, not enough commitment because of jobs, college, etc, I just don't see many more gyms that don't already have a "weaker" open 6 team adopting this division. Yes, it might weed out the scary open 6 teams, but there's not even enough of those to create a new division that I think would flourish.

We won't know til we try it, try it for 2 to 4 years and see if it is a successful division

 

[Num1Stunta]

I would like to weigh in on this debate, because I think I'm one of those lesser-able tumblers that this team would apply to.

I graduated high school (a long time ago lol) with only a roundoff bhs and nothing else, but I made a D2 All girl team in college because I could stunt like nobody's business.... I busted my *** to have a layout by the end of freshman year. Now, here I was, a base and a back who could throw rewind stretches, tick tocks, layout full baskets, coed toss hands stretch, full up, double up, ball up, you name it... and a mid-level pyramid flyer too...

I had worked so hard to catch up with everyone else in tumbling that I ended up injuring myself. I had stress fractures in my shins and feet, broke my ankle, spent some time in a back brace, etc... all from tumbling. I started working fulls, and just pushed and pushed but never got there because of the injuries.

Now, as much as I love me some Level 6 pyramids and tosses, I think I would love to compete on a L4 team if it meant not having to push myself to get a full. Even though I have lost all my tumbling now, I could probably still get myself back into throwing tucks and layouts after a while. I would probably be more likely to tryout for an Open 4 team than an Open 6 team, just because I know the tumbling isn't there.

So yes, Open 4, I'm there!!

 

[retiredl5cheer]

I want to ask this question. How many people who have commented about this being a bad idea have graduated or will graduate at a level 3 or 4? If you do/have then are you saying if you wanted to continue cheering you would rather be on a team with severe safety issues or you would have to be hidden so your lack of skills isn't as noticable? Doesn't make sense to me. I would want to be on a team where I can standout and shine because my true skills can be performed. People are so worried about level 5 athletes but what about the majority of the cheer world that are NOT level 5?

The argument was brought up that those teams are full of adults with full time jobs and they practice once a month so how are they going to advance. The argument can be used to prove that some teams SHOULD NOT be competeing level 6. If they practice once a month with people who are around a level 4 that is causing safety issues because it takes more then a handful of practices to become a level 6 athlete that knows what they are doing correctly.

Me. I could stunt level 5 when I graduated, but with baby flyers. I could only tumble level 4.
I cheer in college now for a DI team. I'm small, so I lifted to become strong enough to base the level 6 stunts. I also had a good coach that teaches in progressions and makes sure we're ready for everything we do. Most of my team graduated high school with level 3/4 stunting and level 2/3 tumbling. I agree that safety is VERY important, but I also think that at the age of 18 and above, people are careful and know how to properly catch and spot. I think level 6 stunts can be taught safely to any athlete with a head on his/her shoulders that is willing to work.

I do correct myself with one thing though. I said earlier that not many open teams practice very often. For these teams, it may be beneficial to be level 4 because they do not have the time to safely learn level 6 stunts.

It is no where near impossible or unsafe to teach a level 2 cheerleader level 6 stunts though.

 

[ztaprincess]

it doesnt. my point was adding more and more divisions is taking away from other divisions...like my level 6 thread i started. everyone said they loved level 6 and wouldnt want to see it go at all, so why would the same people be willing to say they want to take away from a level 6 division. i like your comment about college, but really i dont want to see anymore divisions.

I honestly don't see adding this as taking away from the level 6 division. The teams being talked about going to this division are the ones that stand no chance in level 6. At smaller competitions where they don't compete against anyone or they compete against teams that have an equal amout of talent then sure they are winning level 6. The problem is when these teams go to competitions like NCA or Cheersport where level 6 teams are the top dogs then there is no chance. Instead of having them have no competition give them their own division so they do. Having this division doesn't take away those level 6 teams that are TRUE level 6 teams and constantly place at the top of the division.

I know people don't want to see other divisions so why not help out one group with an Open 4 division and at the same time do away with say the Unlimited/Semi-Limited division and make it 1 division like it was with revisions to it. I get annoyed when they just throw in random new divisions (I wasn't super happy with Semi-Limited) but when the division can really benefit a group then why not give it a test run.

 

[ShutItDown]

I honestly don't see adding this as taking away from the level 6 division. The teams being talked about going to this division are the ones that stand no chance in level 6. At smaller competitions where they don't compete against anyone or they compete against teams that have an equal amout of talent then sure they are winning level 6. The problem is when these teams go to competitions like NCA or Cheersport where level 6 teams are the top dogs then there is no chance. Instead of having them have no competition give them their own division so they do. Having this division doesn't take away those level 6 teams that are TRUE level 6 teams and constantly place at the top of the division.

I know people don't want to see other divisions so why not help out one group with an Open 4 division and at the same time do away with say the Unlimited/Semi-Limited division and make it 1 division like it was with revisions to it. I get annoyed when they just throw in random new divisions (I wasn't super happy with Semi-Limited) but when the division can really benefit a group then why not give it a test run.

Small side note, im all for going back to Large Senior Coed. Im also for getting rid of certain divisions to fill up more divisions at comps so teams dont go against 2 squads. But open 4?...honestly i I dont even watch 4.2 or open 3 or even open 5. I know it would be cool for those few teams that would want to try it, but get the the gym, work on your skills and get better, dont try to stay at a level 4 for the rest of your life. Cheer has come pretty far and ive seen AMAZING athletes go through level by level. an open 4, even if it is for age outers, isnt what I would want to see.

 

[CGAcheer]

Small side note, im all for going back to Large Senior Coed. Im also for getting rid of certain divisions to fill up more divisions at comps so teams dont go against 2 squads. But open 4?...honestly i I dont even watch 4.2 or open 3 or even open 5. I know it would be cool for those few teams that would want to try it, but get the the gym, work on your skills and get better, dont try to stay at a level 4 for the rest of your life. Cheer has come pretty far and ive seen AMAZING athletes go through level by level. an open 4, even if it is for age outers, isnt what I would want to see.

you don't have to watch it. you probably don't watch Mini 1 either but it has tons of teams in it.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Small side note, im all for going back to Large Senior Coed. Im also for getting rid of certain divisions to fill up more divisions at comps so teams dont go against 2 squads. But open 4?...honestly i I dont even watch 4.2 or open 3 or even open 5. I know it would be cool for those few teams that would want to try it, but get the the gym, work on your skills and get better, dont try to stay at a level 4 for the rest of your life. Cheer has come pretty far and ive seen AMAZING athletes go through level by level. an open 4, even if it is for age outers, isnt what I would want to see.

Fulls and doubles aren't in everyone's future, my friend.... especially when you're already 18 when you start working on them