All-Star Who would be in favor of an Open 4 division?

[auntyjane]

I am in an Open 4 coed team in the UK. We don't really have many teams to compete against sadly. But I'm glad the division exists because me and most of my team mates could not compete in level 6. We're not harming the Open 6 teams in the UK because we wouldn't make it on those teams- we don't have the tumbling, and even if we worked super dooper hard, we still wouldn't. I'm glad we get the opportunity, I came to cheer late in life and wouldn't be able to compete without it.

I'm always in favour of people going into a lower division if it means they max out those levels and do it safely.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I have a few things to say about this....

First, the person who keeps talking about the worlds score sheet, that is irrelevant, the worlds score sheet only applies at worlds, and Open 4 wouldn't be at worlds. Every other competition in the country has tumbling as a normal value, so a team with no tumbling would do horrible all year compared to a team with more tumbling. Also, many of the open teams that go Open 4 would barely even have half team standing tucks or running layouts. Most open teams like this have level 2/3 tumbling.

Next, the majority of open teams i see would fit into this category. I couldn't tell you how many open teams i see where they do prep doubles, and stretch full downs, but also do 2-2-1's, and back tuck baskets.

ITS ABOUT HAVING A QUALIFIED COACH. It's all about safety. A lot of these lower level open teams are not about winning. I competed against an open coed team this year with 14 people on it. And the only level 6 skills they did were pyramids and baskets. They didnt double out of anything. Their skills weren't that difficult either. I doubt they came their with the intention of winning. If you have the right coach, then safety won't be an issue, because they won't be pushed beyond their limit. If you don't have the skills, then DONT DO THEM. Just because youre level 6, doesn't mean your whole routine needs to be level 6. There are plenty of level 5 teams with barely any level 5 talent. Same with every other level. Coaches aren't making the best decisions for their teams.

I don't think we need this division. I just wish people weren't stupid across the board. Start making informed decisions. Start concerning yourself with the safety of your team. We shouldn't have to create a division for people just because their skills are lower than level 6. There is a level 1 and level 2, yet there are sooooo many teams with no skills in 2/3 that aren't in the division that they should be.

Perfect example. WildStars. No disrespect to anyone there, but they don't have the tumbling ability for level 6. They have a great coach who knows what he's doing. He doesn't push the team to get new skills that they can't handle. The team had a handful of standing tucks, and the rest had standing handsprings. The team was singling out of stunts. They also do prep, front flips. They can do back tuck baskets. They also do Level 6 pyramids. Their main purpose of competing is to give the girls a place to stay in shape and have fun. The Open 4 division would be more suited for them in terms of tumbling, however they are able to do those level 6 skills without hurting anyone. Not to mention, im sure they have fun working on the level 6 skills that they do.

Ending thought.... so while there are plenty of teams that would fit into this division in a few categories, they still fit into level 6 in a few areas. So moral of the story is don't throw skills you don't have. You know if you are not a truely competitive level 6 team. So just do what you can, and don't get hurt. Just have fun. You don't need a new division to have fun.

 

[Drkilluzionz]

The argument about a possible Open 4 taking talent and teams away from Open 5 and 6 divisions just isnt sound to me. I'm also not attempting to offend anyone but why should a solid level 3/4 cheerleader be on a competitive Open 5 or 6? I understand loop holes and exceptions occur in every gym but I just don't see it.

I'd love to see the division happen with level 4 guidelines...only exception in my opinion would be allowing tuck baskets as a stepping stone in progression

 

[hiyoe6]

I'm against allowing standing tucks and standing through to layouts in a new Open division. To me, those are advanced skills for "Open teams" With the current scoresheets, teams with full squad layouts and standing tucks can easily score in the same score range as those with full squad fulls and toe tucks. This division needs to be set up more like Intermediate at college: Standing tumbling level 3, Running tumbling level 4, Stunting and Pyramids level 4, and baskets level 4, but with the allowance of tuck baskets. I think a solid level 4 tumbler could meet the needs of a mediocure iOpen 5 team, but not a solid level 3 tumbler.

In other words, I'd be more in favor of an Open 4 with some slight differences similar to how Senior Open 5 has slight differences.

 

[hiyoe6]

Also, we see every year that team at Worlds who has received a bid with majority level 4 skills. In other words, if an Open team can produce a SOLID level 4 team with standing tucks and standing to layouts, they should be in the Open 5 division because they can still be competitive in that division. I don't want to change the skill sets for any other team, but in my mind going from level 3 standing tumbling to level 4 standing tumbling is miles apart. Level 4 standing tumbling is closer to level 5 standing tumbling than level 3 standing tumbling.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I just don't think there are the teams/people PERIOD to make this worthwhile, nevermind whether or not it would 'take teams away' from level 6. Would there be some switching of divisions? Most definitely. But I wouldn't expect to see a sudden burst of teams in this division, especially if it's catered to the open 6 age group. Open teams are HARD to work, especially depending on where you are and how many major cheer schools are in your area. Plus, like I said, college students are BUSY..if you live near your gym and have free tumbling, fine. But even as a college sophomore with not a lot on my plate, cheering still took a lot out of my sunday (because I was commuting, and many people are in that boat). I had to switch so many things around for the few times we added extra saturday practices..

 

[ztaprincess]

I just don't think there are the teams/people PERIOD to make this worthwhile, nevermind whether or not it would 'take teams away' from level 6. Would there be some switching of divisions? Most definitely. But I wouldn't expect to see a sudden burst of teams in this division, especially if it's catered to the open 6 age group. Open teams are HARD to work, especially depending on where you are and how many major cheer schools are in your area. Plus, like I said, college students are BUSY..if you live near your gym and have free tumbling, fine. But even as a college sophomore with not a lot on my plate, cheering still took a lot out of my sunday (because I was commuting, and many people are in that boat). I had to switch so many things around for the few times we added extra saturday practices..

I would think that if this division was created you would see teams coming out of nowhere. I personally know several cheerleaders who love allstar cheer, but don't cheer anymore because they don't fit in on a level 5 or 6 open team. If the division is made then cheerleaders can start cheering again because there is now division for them to fit into. Also how is being busy any different for this division as it would be for a level 6 division? If people are too busy to do open 4 then they would be too busy to do open 6 too. With graduating seniors coming off level 4 teams every year there would be plenty of cheerleaders to start filling teams in a new division.

 

[Evergreen]

The Open 4 team would be a great option for old geezers like me! I'd love to still cheer, but to be honest....I'm 32 and have had babies....my body certainly isn't what it was back when I was cheering in college, and I know I don't have my college skills. I know that I can't throw a standing tuck or a tumble through to a full anymore. I also know that there's no way on God's green earth I'd be able to co-ed stunt like I used to. There are older former cheerleaders who would love to still be able to have fun cheering, but they just don't have the skills anymore. Also, you have to remember that back when we (the 30 somethings) were in high school there were a handful of all star teams.....all star cheer didn't become big until AFTER we had all graduated college.

I certainly don't think that a Level 4 Open team would take away from a Level 6 Open team at all. It's a completely different clientele that you're marketing to. The Level 6 are all college aged who either don't want to cheer college, just continue All Star, or those who have a crappy college team so they do the Open team...or, they are on their college team, but like All Star and somehow Dumbledore gave them one of those time travel necklaces so they can do both. The Level 4 Open teams would be us old geezer moms and dads who cheered in college, poped out some kids, have beer guts and torn rotator cuffs, wearing our knee braces for our arthritis and just want to have fun cheering again. Gotta prove to our kids that we were cool at one point in our lives, back before they were born!

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I'm just still confused as to why athletes that don't want to be on a very competitive Open 6 team can't just find a non competitive Open 6 team?

In NJ there was previously only 1 very competitive team (now there are 2). All of the other teams in NJ are more for fun. There is a Mother and Daughter pair on WC WildStars. Again WildStars isn't an extremely competitive team with Worlds in mind. That team is geared for lower level athletes that want to stay in shape and have fun. I can guarantee there are plenty of teams like this in other states. (In addition to wildstars i could name 5 other teams in NJ that are not competitive that would be perfect for the people described in this thread)

 

[ShutItDown]

you don't have to watch it. you probably don't watch Mini 1 either but it has tons of teams in it.

mini 1 is cute. i love watching minis! dont judge

 

[Drkilluzionz]

I'm just still confused as to why athletes that don't want to be on a very competitive Open 6 team can't just find a non competitive Open 6 team?

You made a post earlier in which you recognized qualified and unqualified coaches for these level 6 teams...I think there are enough unqualified coaches teaching and attempting level 6 skills outside their means already without encouraging them to continue to push athletes that arent ready with knowledge they don't have.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

You made a post earlier in which you recognized qualified and unqualified coaches for these level 6 teams...I think there are enough unqualified coaches teaching and attempting level 6 skills outside their means already without encouraging them to continue to push athletes that arent ready with knowledge they don't have.

I agree with the division if that's the way it is looked at.
I'm all for safety and keeping the risk for people to a minimum.

If it is just about people not wanting to compete with certain teams then I think its a waste.

 

[Drkilluzionz]

I get you...agreed!

 

[Ashley]

I cheered in college before there was the intermediate division and we came in next last place and had no business being in the same division as SFA. I believe the intermediate division was started the next year after I graduated.

Sure we could do level 6 pyramids but there wasn't a smooth flow to them. There was a lot of prepping and slow transitions, probably the hardest pyramid we ever hit was a half up 221. only 2 of us had fulls which weren't good enough to compete them on the hard floor. and toss awesomes were our best partner stunts.

We could have been pretty decent at level 4 but stood no chance at 6.

During that time with only practicing once or twice a week and going to a local gymnastics gym for open tumbling on my own. I went from only being able to do a standing tuck and a round off bhs to doing punch fronts, arabians and fulls by the time I graduated while being on what was essentially a level 4 team that had to compete level 6.

I'm a small gym owner and I think I could put together a decent open 4 at my gym, but a terrible open 6

My first year in college, and our last year competing coed we did walk in hands line and an awesome transition to aero double stunt. We did a toss to swedish fall but didn't even toss the shoulders - we couldn't. We had about 3 fulls and half the team had standing tucks. We were in 3rd place going into finals in SFA's division. We probably would have been better suited in an intermediate division, but we all would have quit the team if that were the case. We didn't want to be told we could only do intermediate stunts, even if we didn't do elite stunts vey well.

I've been on competitive and not-so-competitive open teams and the better teams go to bigger competitions and the worse teams go to smaller ones. You have teams that take it super seriously and those that just want to have fun and you choose which works best for you. I think that's better than trying to tell adults that they're limited in what skills they can throw.

I'd rather be on a crappy level 6 team than a level 4 team that wins an NCA jacket.

 

[ztaprincess]

My first year in college, and our last year competing coed we did walk in hands line and an awesome transition to aero double stunt. We did a toss to swedish fall but didn't even toss the shoulders - we couldn't. We had about 3 fulls and half the team had standing tucks. We were in 3rd place going into finals in SFA's division. We probably would have been better suited in an intermediate division, but we all would have quit the team if that were the case. We didn't want to be told we could only do intermediate stunts, even if we didn't do elite stunts vey well.

I've been on competitive and not-so-competitive open teams and the better teams go to bigger competitions and the worse teams go to smaller ones. You have teams that take it super seriously and those that just want to have fun and you choose which works best for you. I think that's better than trying to tell adults that they're limited in what skills they can throw.

I'd rather be on a crappy level 6 team than a level 4 team that wins an NCA jacket.

I think this is a different scenerio really. You aren't telling the adults that they can't do it instead it is giving them the choice to do something they are more qualified to do. Who knows if this was made a division it could fail but honestly it is worth a shot because it could really work out well.

Also some people would love to win an NCA jacket in any division so if they won it in Open 4 they would be just as thrilled as they would if they won it in Open 6.