All-Star Who would be in favor of an Open 4 division?

[CGAcheer]

3. There just aren't that many kids that do open teams. I know that this isn't an argument that I can back up with numbers or anything, but in a lot of areas it's hard to get even enough kids together to make up an open 6 team. Few gyms would be able to field both an open 6 and an open 4 team. So do you bump the lower level kids up to 6 or bump the higher level kids down to 4?

Same things smaller gyms all over the country do with their seniors. You put your kids at the highest level that you think they'll be competitive at. if you have 15 level 4's and 5 level 6's then you'd probably go open 4

We only have one Sr team and we place it according to where the majority of the kids are. So we have a Sr3 with a few kids working their fulls, a couple of kids who just got their back handspring and the majority with round off bhs tucks

 

[retiredl5cheer]

I cheered in college before there was the intermediate division and we came in next last place and had no business being in the same division as SFA. I believe the intermediate division was started the next year after I graduated.

Sure we could do level 6 pyramids but there wasn't a smooth flow to them. There was a lot of prepping and slow transitions, probably the hardest pyramid we ever hit was a half up 221. only 2 of us had fulls which weren't good enough to compete them on the hard floor. and toss awesomes were our best partner stunts.

We could have been pretty decent at level 4 but stood no chance at 6.

During that time with only practicing once or twice a week and going to a local gymnastics gym for open tumbling on my own. I went from only being able to do a standing tuck and a round off bhs to doing punch fronts, arabians and fulls by the time I graduated while being on what was essentially a level 4 team that had to compete level 6.

I'm a small gym owner and I think I could put together a decent open 4 at my gym, but a terrible open 6

If you were an all star open 6, you'd be pretty good with these stunts. You wouldn't be going to Worlds or anything, but would win locals and have a decent chance at smaller nationals (from what I've seen and experienced). An open 4 team wouldn't go to Worlds anyways though.

 

[CGAcheer]

If you were an all star open 6, you'd be pretty good with these stunts. You wouldn't be going to Worlds or anything, but would win locals and have a decent chance at smaller nationals (from what I've seen and experienced). An open 4 team wouldn't go to Worlds anyways though.

Thats my point, having the time to progress on what was in affect a level 4 team I could have moved up to a legit level 6.

What I described shouldn't be a competitive level 6 team, level 6 is supposed to be the top level in allstar cheer right?

 

[ztaprincess]

If you watch a lot of Open 6 teams that compete at worlds and throughout the season they can be downright frightening. I personally would rather see those teams compete at a level where they aren't about killing themselves to try and place high.

Why can't they compete College 4? Well because they would be an allstar team not a college team and not all competitions offer the division. There are a lot of people that don't cheer in college because the college they go to is highly competitive and a true level 6 team and also some just don't like the format of college cheer. It isn't like people are saying oh add this division at worlds, but if you made the division for some competitions then you might see a growth in TRUE level 6 teams because they could progress at the right speed.

I love watching NC State's Intermediate team I would think that if all star had an Open 4 division CEA Raleigh could take those girls and make a great team that could compete more often throughout the year. Actually the more I think about this division the more I can see gyms that could make amazing teams that just fit the divsion perfectly. Maybe instead of just making it a division across the board Cheersport could try out the division to see how it goes or something like that.

People hate having so many divisions then don't watch that division. People don't like 4.2 so they don't watch it or follow it same with other divisions. The same thing can be done with this division but it would still give those athletes that could benefit from it a shot at cheering.

 

[Ariel]

Here are my points in an easy to read format:

1. Open teams are almost always made up of graduated students or coaches that go to school or have full time jobs. Most college kids or full time workers do not have time for 3 practices a week and a tumbling class. The amount that MOST/MANY open teams practice is once a week to once a month, because that's how much time these adults have to dedicate to cheerleading. Not a whole lot of progression to legitimate level 5 skills is going to happen with that practice schedule. So the argument that open 4 would help kids progress to international open 5 teams isn't very accurate.

Exactly, I don't think you can use that as an argument for Open 4. Like you said, MOST open teams, ESPECIALLY open 6 teams, do not practice often. If an 18+ year old is going to keep progressing, you are going to have to be in the gym more than once a week or once a month.

Would it be a competetive division? Maybe.

Would a good majority of these adults progress into level 5/6 athletes like you are suggesting? Probably not.

 

[garretttt]

Why do you all want more divisions? to water down competition?

 

[ztaprincess]

Why do you all want more divisions? to water down competition?

adding that division would not water down competition. Level 6 as it is has a handful of TRUE level 6 teams that are competitive in those 2 divisions. If you were to add Open 4 you would create a good level for those teams that fit in a lower division leaving all the true level 6 teams in their division where they belong. How is that watering down the competition when the teams we are talking about are teams that usually stand no chance at beating the teams that are true level 6 teams? If anything it is creating more competition for those athletes.

also even if they don't progress to level 5 or 6 they will still have a division where they can be truly competitive against teams that have the same skills being thrown as them. It would be more fair to them to compete against a team that can do the same as them as going against Rays Rust or Gymtyme who are completely level 6.

 

[theoneandonly]

Cheerboy... I was actually cool with you haha. You just get defensive easily. Have you competed on a worlds international team? I'm just asking.. No assumptions intended! I really don't know

 

[Drkilluzionz]

A couple things came across my mind while reading this post...

First, who said that this would need to be a World's division, I agree whole heartedly that World's has too many teams in attendance and should be an accomplishment for deserving level 5 and level 6 teams.

For those arguing about catering to too many cheerleaders/gyms by adding divisions...this is one that in my opinion actually makes sense. When you look at the grand scheme of things level 5 and 6's would def be the minority compared to the level 3 and 4 teams across the country, so why not offer those graduating from a senior team the opportunity to keep doing what they love to do.

As for why they wouldn't just do college...lets be honest...games can be fun here and there but if your competitive and love to compete would you rather be on the sidelines the entire year and compete once...or be on an open team of the APPROPRIATE skill level and compete regionals, state and nationals?

For those saying it would take talent away from level 6 teams I really don't see your argument...What nationally competitive open level 6 team that you know has level 4 and below athletes on it? If they do than it's probably a majority of people on the team and a level 4 open team is probably where the team itself should be anyway.

I don't know why this idea has never come up before but I'm def going to do my best to have it tossed around as an idea at an upcoming NACCC or USASF meeting.

 

[ztaprincess]

Drkilluzionz kudos to your post. This is one division that could help out a lot of cheerleaders. Not only giving them a true division to be competitive in but also it will help major safety issues with teams that are doing skills that are way above the level they should be doing. Seeing teams try and throw level 6 stunts and pyramids when they should be at a lower level is scary and very dangerous and at times I find times hiding my eyes when certain teams perform because it is that scary. Just like people don't like seeing kids pushed into level 5 so quickly pushing someone into level 6 too quickly is just as bad.

You touched on what i said earlier and i think people forget it and that is the lower level teams out there outweigh the level 5s and 6s.

I would love to have the idea tossed around at the big meetings just to see how everyone else feels about it. It has been something I have wondered for a few years now but never really mentioned it because I figured I would be the oddball everyone would think was crazy. So glad to see there are others that actually think it would be a good idea.

 

[garretttt]

Cheerboy... I was actually cool with you haha. You just get defensive easily. Have you competed on a worlds international team? I'm just asking.. No assumptions intended! I really don't know

Oh sorry I thought you were implying something lol my bad. And no I haven't but I know plenty of people who have and both gyms I have ever been at have had one.

 

[dohnutt]

Okay I have a question..for those that are using the argument that level six stunts are too new and too hard for many of the level 3/4 athletes that have graduated, what about the international 5 divisions? They dont require the flipping baskets and 221 pyramids. And level four atheltes could do a level 5 team and after a year or so would be at the same stunting level as any level 5 graduation senior. Now I know that doesnt solve the tumbling portion of it, but right now i'm just looking at the stunting portion.
I'm not super familiar with the open divisions and the age rules and stuff so if i'm missing something please let me know!

 

[kristenthegreat]

I think you're assuming there's this great untapped resource of cheerleaders who want to compete after seniors but can't because they don't have the skills or don't have a college cheer team in their area. Maybe there is, but I just don't see it.. Many people forget that allstars is EXPENSIVE..maybe some of you have parents who would chip in for it, but many of us college kids don't have the cash flow, never mind the time/inclination to cheer on a college team with a more rigorous schedule. I barely scraped by the one year I did open..The kids on my team were from a variety of skill levels, many however did/were doing college cheerleading at the time. Did they have the tumbling, no. But we threw straight up stunts and 2 1/2 high pyramids and got by just fine.

 

[ShutItDown]

no more divisions. everyone wants a division to be added, yet when large senior and unlimited dies everyone wonders why...-__-

 

[CGAcheer]

no more divisions. everyone wants a division to be added, yet when large senior and unlimited dies everyone wonders why...-__-

This would not affect those divisions, It would be people who are too old in the first place and most likely haven't made it to level 5 skills.

The only division this would affect is the Open 6 teams that would fit in better as an open 4.