All-Star Anyone Else Notice Alot Of 12 Year Old Flyers On The Floor?

[F!ERCE]

I think we should all give coaches more credit for balancing what's best for the kids and the program.

Every time I have had a question about a coach's motives, it often proved to just be my point of view and when (if) I asked about it, the answer made sense. Not always, because nobody is perfect. . .but then that's why they get to be the coach.

I do believe that a lot of coaches do things with the kids in mind and have had very good experiences with them. But I've experienced a few who don't...maybe that's why that issue seems so prominent to me. Maybe those kinds of coaches are the exceptions.

 

[PghxCheer2]

Let's keep in mind, if you don't think your kid is ready to drive, or be on a senior team in this situation, it is YOUR responsibility as a parent to keep them off the road, or off the team. The government decided that 16 was an appropriate age to drive. I know plenty of 16 year olds who shouldn't be driving. But I also know a lot who are great drivers, better than some people twice their age in fact! The coach doesn't know your child as well as you do, or at least they shouldn't. Technically speaking, when it comes to maturity the parents are the ones approving the rosters by letting their child participate on a team their not ready for.


And just saying, If I was a coach and had a 12 year old athlete that wasn't necessarily as mature as the rest of the team, but wasn't balling their eyes out and constantly complaining about the work load, then I'd take that 12 year old I can toss around with a double over a 14 year old without the tumbling any day of the week. Just because a girl is in her teens doesn't automatically mean she knows how to hold her body weight, and how to pull a beautiful scorpion, and do amazing one and a half ups. It doesn't mean she'll be able to do more for the team when it comes to the pyramid. It doesn't mean she has good jumps and can pick up a change in the dance quick. Those things often come with experience at higher level teams. And if there is a girl who has flown on a successful junior 5 team for three years, sometimes she is a better asset to the team then the girl who just got a full last week. By placing a young athlete on a senior team, they will almost inevitably become more mature as the year progresses. They will learn through their teammates and coaches what is deemed acceptable and unacceptable at that level with given time. Sometimes, that is the price you'll have to pay if you want a few more doubles or whatever desirable skill they have that you want on your team. Sometimes it is simply the physical aspect too. Not every 15 year old is gonna be able to lift normal sized girls. Sometimes you need a peanut up in the air if you want the stunt to work.

 

[newcheerdad]

As a relatively new cheer parent as well as someone who's coached and officiated youth soccer (and knows about the risks and benefits of "playing up") I weighed on this topic on the newbies board. Since I'm a newbie and all. Feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, wouldn't be the first time.

http://fierceboard.com/forum/threads/too-young.9346/page-4#post-262835

 

[Drkilluzionz]

I really see it on a gym by gym basis, like mentioned earlier our gym for example does not have enough level 5 athletes of the junior age range to field an entire junior level 5 team...b/c they are young does that mean we should automatically take those 13 year olds (one whose semi coeds point flyer with a double and another who actually bases and throws a full punch double) and put them on senior open with skill restrictions? Seems like a bit of a waste as well as not the smartest of business or coaching decisions imo.

 

[srt418]

FWIW, when I used the example of my daughter I was responding to the poster that had said that ALL kids should have to stay within their age level...not just Senior level 5's. Not sure you read the whole thread

I wasn't just talking about you. After reading the entire thread, there were numerous posts by parents and cheerleaders that used younger cheerleaders that would not be affected as an example. Thank you for trying to point out that I didn't read the whole thread. Would you like me to quote every single post that I was referring to next time?

 

[srt418]

FWIW, when I used the example of my daughter I was responding to the poster that had said that ALL kids should have to stay within their age level...not just Senior level 5's. Not sure you read the whole thread

Also, I didn't quote you for a reason in my original post.

 

[MissCongeniality]

As a relatively new cheer parent as well as someone who's coached and officiated youth soccer (and knows about the risks and benefits of "playing up") I weighed on this topic on the newbies board. Since I'm a newbie and all. Feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, wouldn't be the first time.

http://fierceboard.com/forum/threads/too-young.9346/page-4#post-262835

I think you make some great points. I'd like to respond to your request for experiences. My 12 yo CP has been on a Senior team since she was 9 (Area with only small gyms and nothing skill appropriate in her age level). When asked to be on it, we sat down and talked to her and let her know that she would be expected to hold herself to a higher level of maturity. That being treated like a "baby" (like having the girls carry her around ) was not something we would tolerate. That she would likely be "left out" of parties etc.

Our findings (and of course it would vary gym to gym and team to team) It wasn't the kids who had a problem... it was the parents! With rare exception...all the kids did just fine. CP found girls who were friendly and all around good kids (again there were exceptions... but enough were genuinely nice kids!) The parents, on the other hand, were the ones who couldn't stand her being on the Senior team. Remember this was back in the day of "Open" if someone was under age. I heard so much negativity and watched HORRIBLE behavior from the ADULTS! Adults who were straight out mean to my daughter. One even blasted her to me, not realizing I was her parent. Blasted her because of her age only... not because of how she behaved (because trust me she behaved better and tried harder than many of the girls older than she was!) not because of her skills (she wasn't being hidden in back for jumps or dance... she could hold her own and didn't look like a fetus LOL!)It was purely because of her age on paper!

CP has never had any regrets about her decision to be on the Senior team at a young age and neither have we. Sure it would have been awesome to have a Youth or Junior 4 or 5 team (even 3!), but that wasn't an option within driving distance. Is "playing up" the right choice for everyone? Definitely not! Like I said before we had the luxury of having mostly wonderful kids at the gym (even if some parents were so horrible---but them I can handle! LOL!) so that made our decision that much easier!!

 

[coach.elle]

agree, at my high school 9th grade isn't even considered "high school". separate cheerleading squad and football team. its just considered ninth grade. it was a biiiiig push for us to want 9th grade cheerleaders on our competition team for winter this year.

Interesting.. In Minnesota 7th and 8th graders are fair game! Not very many schools have middle school programs and even when they do you still see plenty of 8th graders on jv or varsity teams. Generally I don't like having 7th graders them on varsity though because of body control in the air.. Assuming they are tops.

 

[NJ Coach]

As a relatively new cheer parent as well as someone who's coached and officiated youth soccer (and knows about the risks and benefits of "playing up") I weighed on this topic on the newbies board. Since I'm a newbie and all. Feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, wouldn't be the first time.

http://fierceboard.com/forum/threads/too-young.9346/page-4#post-262835

I think you bring up a lot of good points in your post. Don't worry about being told you don't know what you're talking about...I think all of us have been told that at least once

 

[srt418]

I am currently involved in both All Star and High School cheer and have been noting the differences. High School has a strong emphasis on execution, while all star is more about the flash and difficulty (IMO). Personally i love them both. But i think the reason you don't see 7th grade fliers very often on high school teams is because they don't have as much body control. You can make the stunt happen, yes, but generally it looks shaky to me. All star is all about the height of the toss and the number of twists, all easier with smaller tops.

I coach at a high school team, and in order to build our new program up, we take 7th and 8th graders on Varsity (allowed in MN). But i try to make a point to put girls their age under them, or at least smaller girls. I think that this way, those 7th grade tops at least have to be tight to make the stunt work.

I genuinely envy you. I have not seen that many high schools that focus on execution (in FL) as much as allstars. There are always exceptions in both allstars and high school.

About putting younger bases with younger flyers - that makes sense since your flyers have some skills and you're putting them with girls that probably have an equal amount of difficulty putting a 7th grader up as a 12th grader has putting a 12th grader up. Do you coach at a public or private school? I know that private schools can get away with MS girls in FL on the varsity team (depending on the competitions they participate in), however I don't think public schools have any access to this mostly because the HS is a different location from the MS.

 

[srt418]

As a relatively new cheer parent as well as someone who's coached and officiated youth soccer (and knows about the risks and benefits of "playing up") I weighed on this topic on the newbies board. Since I'm a newbie and all. Feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, wouldn't be the first time.

http://fierceboard.com/forum/threads/too-young.9346/page-4#post-262835

I agree 100% with your key traits. Without just one of these, the 12 yr old (or whatever young age) won't succeed in the best way. IMO

 

[SharkDad]

As a relatively new cheer parent as well as someone who's coached and officiated youth soccer (and knows about the risks and benefits of "playing up") I weighed on this topic on the newbies board. Since I'm a newbie and all. Feel free to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, wouldn't be the first time.

http://fierceboard.com/forum/threads/too-young.9346/page-4#post-262835

This is a well thought out post. I agree with NJ coach, if you continue to be as organized and thoughtful in posting, most people will welcome your opinion.

 

[ATLCallan]

My team has the same problem. There are a couple of flyers on my team that like 7 but they're 12 and it's a senior team. I guess it's a generation thing. I have been seeing a lot of fetus flyers all over all star cheer. It must be a generation thing.

 

[newcheerdad]

I think you make some great points. I'd like to respond to your request for experiences. My 12 yo CP has been on a Senior team since she was 9 (Area with only small gyms and nothing skill appropriate in her age level). When asked to be on it, we sat down and talked to her and let her know that she would be expected to hold herself to a higher level of maturity. That being treated like a "baby" (like having the girls carry her around ) was not something we would tolerate. That she would likely be "left out" of parties etc.

Our findings (and of course it would vary gym to gym and team to team) It wasn't the kids who had a problem... it was the parents! With rare exception...all the kids did just fine. CP found girls who were friendly and all around good kids (again there were exceptions... but enough were genuinely nice kids!) The parents, on the other hand, were the ones who couldn't stand her being on the Senior team. Remember this was back in the day of "Open" if someone was under age. I heard so much negativity and watched HORRIBLE behavior from the ADULTS! Adults who were straight out mean to my daughter. One even blasted her to me, not realizing I was her parent. Blasted her because of her age only... not because of how she behaved (because trust me she behaved better and tried harder than many of the girls older than she was!) not because of her skills (she wasn't being hidden in back for jumps or dance... she could hold her own and didn't look like a fetus LOL!)It was purely because of her age on paper!

CP has never had any regrets about her decision to be on the Senior team at a young age and neither have we. Sure it would have been awesome to have a Youth or Junior 4 or 5 team (even 3!), but that wasn't an option within driving distance. Is "playing up" the right choice for everyone? Definitely not! Like I said before we had the luxury of having mostly wonderful kids at the gym (even if some parents were so horrible---but them I can handle! LOL!) so that made our decision that much easier!!

My daughter (or should I refer to her as "my CP") is fortunate enough to be in a fairly large program where there are multiple teams in each age category, but I understand that's not the case everywhere. I've seen some teams in our neck of the woods where the "senior" team has a wide, wide range of ages.

I think the way you handled it with your CP was quite good, and it sounds like your daughter handled the situation well - even if some parents didn't. Sadly, you'll find pockets of that kind of behavior in every sport.

 

[newcheerdad]

I agree 100% with your key traits. Without just one of these, the 12 yr old (or whatever young age) won't succeed in the best way. IMO

I think the point I was making is that it's easy to confuse "having the skills" with "being ready to be on the team". Having the skills is just one piece of the puzzle.

This is a well thought out post. I agree with NJ coach, if you continue to be as organized and thoughtful in posting, most people will welcome your opinion.

Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated.