All-Star Grand Unified Theory Of Cheerology

[King]

An international team is an open team.

Bwahahaha, good post.

 

[King]

Adding another rule: No crossing between levels UNLESS you qualify as a small gym.

 

[Ashley]

Bwahahaha, good post.

Last I checked the division was called International Open Level 5! (And I only said international in the previous post because that's what she referred to it as.)

 

[King]

Last I checked the division was called International Open Level 5!

we are talking about my grand unified theory, not how it currently is. if one piece is hypothetical, to keep things clear lets discuss all as hypothetical.

 

[Ashley]

we are talking about my grand unified theory, not how it currently is. if one piece is hypothetical, to keep things clear lets discuss all as hypothetical.

Right, I think we're actually on the same page here. I didn't mean to contradict you, or argue that it should be called an international team - just that using "international" to refer to IO5 and "Open" to refer to IO6 is not accurate.

 

[King]

i agree with alot of your points except this one, i'm 20 and practice twice a week, have a job, and bust my butt everyday in the gym to have the skills to compete on a international team. i competed on a open 6 team last year and it def wasn't taken as seriously as say the international division this year, yes im on a team with younger kids, but i can be respectful and be a role model esp to the kids i coach. i come in the gym and do what i need to do and be just as much as a asset to the team as the 16 year old girls. yes i understand there needs to be a separation but i feel this division is such a perfect division for people like me who want to stay competitive in level 5, who aged out and still ABLE to do the skills. Open teams just weren't for me and i have a few friends in the same situation.

Very few have figured out how to run open teams. If you take out the two colleges in coed 6, how many open teams have been consistent and around for more than 2 years? Rays and Pace? Part of the reason is the carrot at the end is not very attractive and has a high barrier to entry. Plain open divisions where the top half go to finals would help.

Also, I am more than willing to discuss how to run a completely adult fueled open team, why its good for your area/gym, and good for the industry if you are interested (or if anyone is interested).

 

[King]

Not sure I like #9... Great idea but seems very tedious and hard to do.

I am not scared of the hard. I promise, I would get it right (well, 95% right... actual use would fix the rest).

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

Adding another rule: No crossing between levels UNLESS you qualify as a small gym.

I feel like this would cause more of a problem than limiting crossovers. The junior and youth kids could cross over from say J3 to S3, but the senior kids wouldn't be able to because not many gyms have two S3 teams. Not every single team is filled with kids who are 100% qualified for that level, but they add to the team with what they are qualified for. Basically when that emergency occurs that we all need crossovers so badly for happens, you will have a third less of your kids to choose from...unless you're a small gym. If we're trying to even the playing field, this doesn't make it any more even.

 

[tumbleyoda]

What if you were allowed to crossover to just one team? Doesn't matter the level (until we can truly fix that issue) as long as you age qualify. This would cut down on crossovers, gyms would have to strategize better who to allow to crossover to which teams. Exception of course would be to Special Needs. It allows a child to base on one team and fly on another. It allows a child to be on a higher level team to work hard and yet still compete on a team at their true level. It narrows the focus and definitley does something tangible. The biggest issue I see in that are the competition companies who make a killing off over charging for crossovers.

 

[newcheerdad]

I'm usually not this dense I promise (Don't ask Acedad he doesn't like me) but can you explain the difference in a wide disparity and zero chance of winning? If the disparity was wide enough that'd leave no chance of winning right?

Maybe I've just had too much cheer for 1 day. I'll sleep on it and come back in the morning after my coffee. LOL I really want to see your point.

You're never going to have a truly playing field. Ever. I've worked with rec soccer leagues and there's an always an attempt to keep the teams relatively equal, but sometimes kids progress at a rapid rate, you have kids quit another team, and voila - you've got one team that's far better than the other despite your best attempts to make them similar.

In competitive tournaments, it gets even harder, because one program's "elite" team may be significantly worse than another's, even though they're both elite teams by that program's definition. I've seen teams in tournaments that had no business being there, and believe me, it's no fun for 12-year-old kids to lose a soccer game 10-0 and know that they had no chance to win, or even be competitive.

Same with cheer. Just because two teams are both senior level 2 teams with similarly aged athletes doesn't mean that these teams are evenly matched. The idea is that you should do whatever you can to ensure that if two level 2 teams are competing against each other that the skill level of the teams are as similar as possible. A level 2 team stocked with kids that also cheer on a level 4 or 5 team is going to have a significant advantage over a team that is made up entirely of kids that are level 1 or 2 athletes.

Now even if you do that - and the teams have athletes of similar skill levels - that doesn't mean there STILL can't be a wide disparity in talent. Coaching, facilities, the amount of practice, and the athletes themselves...they all make a difference. But I've seen competitions where the skill gap between teams in the same division is so pronounced (and often you see this same team in every competition) that it makes you wonder if the teams should be competing against each other. That is the one thing I'd like to see remedied at some point.

 

[Rudags]

Adding another rule: No crossing between levels UNLESS you qualify as a small gym.

HECK NO! LOL! We dont qualify as a small gym, but for our area, we are a "small gym" We have 120 atheletes. This year I beleieve we only have 5 crossovers. 2 of them started on our Senior 1 and got BHSs so cross to our Senior 2, and they other 3 go from our Senior 4, to our Senior 3. At this point, we do have a few crossovers, but they are due to injuries, absenses, etc. If we couldnt have crossovers, our teams would be less competitive.

 

[King]

HECK NO! LOL! We dont qualify as a small gym, but for our area, we are a "small gym" We have 120 atheletes. This year I beleieve we only have 5 crossovers. 2 of them started on our Senior 1 and got BHSs so cross to our Senior 2, and they other 3 go from our Senior 4, to our Senior 3. At this point, we do have a few crossovers, but they are due to injuries, absenses, etc. If we couldnt have crossovers, our teams would be less competitive.

Modification then: Crossovers can only go one level up or down. That make more sense?

 

[newcheerdad]

Oh, and to finish my thoughts above. In know that on the USASF website there was something about a "rec" division.

http://usasf.net/programs/rec/

The idea of having rec teams compete in their own division is a good one, because again, it ensures that teams are competing against "like" teams. And there are plenty of other reason to have rec teams (way to get kids involved in the sport with the high financial commitment of cheer, acts as a feeder program to all-star teams, etc.) that go beyond competitive balance.

 

[newcheerdad]

Modification then: Crossovers can only go one level up or down. That make more sense?

I'm not opposed to, say, a level 4 athlete competing on a level 3 or even a level 2 team if it's necessary. Again, things happen with injuries, people leaving the program, and you might need to plug in someone. But you shouldn't have a team full of level 4 athletes on a level 2 team. Which is why I came up with my "tiered" approach.

 

[Ashley]

Modification then: Crossovers can only go one level up or down. That make more sense?

My gym doesn't have a senior coed level 5 team, but one of the boy crosses over onto the open level 6. I know individual cases shouldn't necessarily be taken into account, and I don't think anyone is really complaining about level 6 with crossovers, but it could be an issue.