All-Star Yo, Gymtyme Is Not Playing This Year.

[CheerFanatic]

Just talked to Les Stella myself and he is now retracting the fact that it is illegal. His leg to stand on: the definition of flat. He says her leg is in the scorp behind her. Well, I looked up the definition of flat and it says "Horizontal". The USASF's own definition of the word "Flat back" is "lying horizontal". You can pause the video and clearly see that the flyers are face down lying horizontal. Guess the rules are what the USASF want them to be whenever they want them to be that way. Just proof that they will do what they want whenever they want. Too bad for MCE.

and if you look up the definition of horizontal - it is parallel to level ground. The flyer is caught at a 45 degree angle - not parallel. There was a teleconference with the parties involved AFTER Les Stella watched the VIDEO today and it was deemed legal because the flyer is caught at an angle - not horizontal which is flat.

 

[Rudags]

and if you look up the definition of horizontal - it is parallel to level ground. The flyer is caught at a 45 degree angle - not parallel. There was a teleconference with the parties involved AFTER Les Stella watched the VIDEO today and it was deemed legal because the flyer is caught at an angle - not horizontal which is flat.

Interesting perspective. It makes sense... GT is the best at Loop Holes...

 

[CheerFanatic]

Interesting perspective. It makes sense... GT is the best at Loop Holes...

Sometimes - people just interpret things in different ways - it doesn't mean one person is right or one person is wrong. It just means that the way it is written can be interpreted different ways. Maybe if it was intended to be illegal - it will be clarified the next time the rules come out.

2 years ago - because of the way a rule was written (could be interpreted different ways) arial cartwheels were allowed in level 3. They realized halfway through the season that the way it was written allowed it. They allowed it for the rest of the season and changed it for the next year.

As it is now - because of the way it is written - this stunt is legal.

 

[Rudags]

and if you look up the definition of horizontal - it is parallel to level ground. The flyer is caught at a 45 degree angle - not parallel. There was a teleconference with the parties involved AFTER Les Stella watched the VIDEO today and it was deemed legal because the flyer is caught at an angle - not horizontal which is flat.

Just saying - It looks to me SOME of the flyers arent 45 degrees, specifically the back left and the point flyer. However, I can live with those being performance errors and being missed. I just dont like that it was deemed Illegal and then legal...

 

[StuntMonkey]

My issue with the whole discussion is that the intent behind the rule, not necessarily just this one but rules in general, is often ignored when figuring how to adjudicate it. Instead the exact letter of the rule is used, and in some cases twisted to suit one party or the other. The joy of loop-holes.

If the rules were laid out with their intent stated then it would be possible to more consistently and fairly deal with gray area issues at the rule boundaries.

It's my understanding, and certainly correct me if I'm wrong, but the intent behind the rule of not catching a flyer after a release in a prone position was for safety concerns. Being caught improperly by the abdomen is more painful and has a greater chance of leading to injury (Though if you ask any flyer the worst possible cradle is one where she is caught on her side -- they love getting those floating ribs dislocated, not!).

It's just my opinion I know, but I like to believe that if people hold the intent in their mind as they decide what course to take you end up with more agreement and less loop-hole finding and rule lawyering going on.

Now if people don't agree on the base intent behind a rule, then I can't help you. Personally I don't have a problem with prone catches by two bases, especially for pyramid transitions. But I can see removing them on the basis of safety in general as there are many out there who don't perform them well and the additional height (and potentially launching the flyer in an unexpected direction) increases the risk. Just as, ages ago now, double back basket tosses were removed because few could do them well enough to be really safe.

 

[CoachD]

But aren't the "gray areas" in the rules what pushes our sport to be more creative year after year? I look to Top Gun and their amazing choreography year after year and they push the limits to create new and innovative transitions and routines out of the guidelines and rules given.

Nothing beats that excited for me - the WOW factor.

 

[Rudags]

I am going to have to find a video... but I am about 90% certain that a team (maryland Vipers? Or Perhaps Marlins? For some reason MARYLAND is in my head?) did what I remember to be the exact same stunt a few/several years ago and it was deemed illegal at a USASF competition. I beleive it was called a "Death Drop" or a "Death Dive". I remember reading a thread about it. If someone remember or can help me research it, that would be great as I am out of town this weekend doing choreo, but I am CERTAIN a level 5 team did this stunt (and I remember it being similar, if not exact same....and they got called on it...

Here is a question to ponder... What if roles were reversed? WHAT IF Gymtyme competed this stunt and got called for it being illegal - and then using a gray area, found out it wasnt? And GT didnt get the bid? Would the USASF then try to use one of its "gray areas" to cover its a$$ and be like "Just kidding... Since it would make us look bad... Lets just go with it being illegal because prone means face down and we wont want someone getting hurt coming down like that"

I feel like "gray areas" are used for the USASF to save themselves. Funny how at first - This stunt was deemed ILLEGAL by Les - Then a day later - after commotion on the Fierceboard and throughoutthe country (Lets face it, tons of coaches were talking about this) suddenly the discovery was made that it was LEGAL by the person who "makes" and interprets the rules....

Are the rules SO POORLY written that even the GOD OF RULES cant interpret them himself???

 

[kristenthegreat]

Angles. Really? We're going to use 'angles' on this one? What if she's caught at a 32 degree angle or a 68 degree angle next time? Is it illegal then? Is Rich going to have to drop his CEA stopwatch and whip out a protractor? *I kid, I kid...*

There is boundary pushing creativity. Then there is changing the interpretation of the rules to suit your needs accordingly. The former is a stretch, the latter just isn't ok with me. I don't understand how you can magically create a gray area out of a word with a set definition. If the rule states no release moves may be caught in a prone position, then I don't care what angle you catch her and if she's falling in a double 'c' jump, prone means a body position on your stomach.

 

[0hs0electriK]

haahha, embarrassing to everyone who said the stunt was "definitely illegal".

 

[Rudags]

Angles. Really? We're going to use 'angles' on this one? What if she's caught at a 32 degree angle or a 68 degree angle next time? Is it illegal then? Is Rich going to have to drop his CEA stopwatch and whip out a protractor?

 

[King]

W.W.R.D.

 

[BSS2000]

Our sport is full of drama and scandal this week, then again I guess it always existed.

 

[Audrey]

haahha, embarrassing to everyone who said the stunt was "definitely illegal".

Not really because Les thought it was illegal originally. It still looks illegal to me.
The only thing I find embaressing about this is that people can bend the rules like that. It makes our sport look a lot less legitimate. An angle? Really?

 

[0hs0electriK]

Not really because Les thought it was illegal originally. It still looks illegal to me.
The only thing I find embaressing about this is that people can bend the rules like that. It makes our sport look a lot less legitimate. An angle? Really?

yes, an angle. If the girls are not flat, why should they be punished under the rule? Maybe people on here should dicuss the rules more, rather than calling out GT's every move. James Speed KNOWS what he is doing, and I am sure that he would never put something illegal in a routine.

 

[berdon]

yes, an angle. If the girls are not flat, why should they be punished under the rule? Maybe people on here should dicuss the rules more, rather than calling out GT's every move. James Speed KNOWS what he is doing, and I am sure that he would never put something illegal in a routine.

Is a flipping twisting dismount in level 6 legal?