All-Star Restricting Tumbling To Your All Star Gym Only??

[cheerinfo]

After reading the posts, I am very shocked at some of the "how dare you tell me where I can take my kid" attitude. This sport isn't all about your kid. It is about a team! If you are a member of the gym that sent this, I would hope the coaching staff would have already discussed the reason why they have this policy. They may have a very good reason. And if you don't like the policy, maybe this isn't the gym for you.

This is a TEAM sport! All members of the team are vital!

It IS a team sport, however, my kids getting skills is an individual aspect of the sport. And my kids have been injured as well...guess what, it happened at their gym, not where they tumbled some of the time! I dont' blame the gym...it is a sport with risks just like any other sport and it happens. Doesn't mean that the gym was unsafe, it just means they got injured. So it can happen ANYWHERE. Mandating that kids not only cheer for you but ONLY tumble and take other classes at that same gym is not necessary. Not saying that every kid should just go elsewhere, but if SOME kids have relationships with coaches that are elsewhere, who cares. They are getting those skills to help their cheer gym. Silliness I say!

 

[redsmom]

After reading the posts, I am very shocked at some of the "how dare you tell me where I can take my kid" attitude. This sport isn't all about your kid. It is about a team! If you are a member of the gym that sent this, I would hope the coaching staff would have already discussed the reason why they have this policy. They may have a very good reason. And if you don't like the policy, maybe this isn't the gym for you.

This is a TEAM sport! All members of the team are vital! If you have ever had an injured child you should understand this. When my daughter got hurt, she felt horrrible! More for letting her team down than for physical pain. She was an emotional wreck just thinking about someone else in her stunt group. At practices when the stunt didn't hit (with her just watching), she would come home a mess! If she had gotten injured at another gym trying a tumbling pass that wasn't in the routine...well I can only imagine how guilty she would have felt. And as a parent I would feel responsible for letting 35 other kids and familes(that have time and money invested) down. And I am aware that everyone is replaceable on a team, but during the compitition season, bringing in a replacement sometimes isn't so easy on a higher level team.

I understand this policy but do think that there should be an open door for kids who live far away and just want to perfect current skills and get some mat time. And before the season starts, have at it! Try new skills whenever and where ever, but when the routine is set, you owe it to your coach and your team to be responsible when and where you try new skills. I just look at this policy as to protect all involved.

I don't really buy the injury argument. My family skis, so during competition season we often hit the local slopes and may even go on a longer trip during the winter/Christmas break. My daughter was probably more likely to get injured skiing black diamond slopes then tumbling at another gym. Now I wouldn't take her skiing the week before NCA, but I certainly wouldn't expect her to hang up her skis completely either. We can't bubble wrap them when they walk out of the gym. My point being that tumbling at another gym is probably no more of a risk then many other activities our kids participate in. If the gym is concerned about proper technique etc... then an open dialog seems like the better way to go. If the gym is concerned about lost revenue... then make sure you are the best option by providing the best service!

 

[twinmom]

It IS a team sport, however, my kids getting skills is an individual aspect of the sport. And my kids have been injured as well...guess what, it happened at their gym, not where they tumbled some of the time! I dont' blame the gym...it is a sport with risks just like any other sport and it happens. Doesn't mean that the gym was unsafe, it just means they got injured. So it can happen ANYWHERE. Mandating that kids not only cheer for you but ONLY tumble and take other classes at that same gym is not necessary. Not saying that every kid should just go elsewhere, but if SOME kids have relationships with coaches that are elsewhere, who cares. They are getting those skills to help their cheer gym. Silliness I say!

Well since you feel so strongly about this, I hope your kids never want to cheer at a gym that has this policy.... that is why we all have choices. I was just trying to look at this topic from another perspective. And if you read my entire post, I said that if someone needs to tumble elsewhere, I would hope the gym with that policy would be open to discuss it.
There are things about my child's gym that I don't necessarily agree with but, in my eyes they are minor and the benifits of being there outweigh my concerns. When the benifits stop outweighing the negative, then it is time to make some hard choices.

 

[Weezy]

Bottom line the email was sent. I don't like the tone of the email NOR would I take very kindly to someone telling me what I could do with my money. HOWEVER, if that was in the contract and I signed it...then that's my bad. BUT I would NEVER sign such a contract. At our gym, there was NEVER any problem with tumbling elsewhere. And from what I see on FB, there still isnt.

I'm not buying the whole "injury" perspective. It's about control. Yes it's a team sport, but at then end of the day it's a business for consumers. These gyms aren't open out of the goodness of their hearts. Yes most love what they do, but it's still a business what they do.

Rudags has a good perspective. I certainly would be fine if my child's coach gave them some tips when tumbling at another gym in regards to progression. Nothing wrong with that, in fact I would welcome it.

 

[twinmom]

I don't really buy the injury argument. My family skis, so during competition season we often hit the local slopes and may even go on a longer trip during the winter/Christmas break. My daughter was probably more likely to get injured skiing black diamond slopes then tumbling at another gym. Now I wouldn't take her skiing the week before NCA, but I certainly wouldn't expect her to hang up her skis completely either. We can't bubble wrap them when they walk out of the gym. My point being that tumbling at another gym is probably no more of a risk then many other activities our kids participate in. If the gym is concerned about proper technique etc... then an open dialog seems like the better way to go. If the gym is concerned about lost revenue... then make sure you are the best option by providing the best service!

No argument here... just explaining why I wouldn't let my child try new tumbling passes at another gym during competition season. I am all for getting new skills, but there is a time and place. No bubble wrap here...she cheers at school too and runs track... just know how bad my child would feel. I pay the gym for their expertise and trust they will do what's best for all 36 kids.

 

[kristenthegreat]

As for the injury thing, I just have to ask: what if you get injured on a tumble pass you're working at your gym that keeps your tumbling score in majority..should you feel less guilty then because you're injured at your home gym? I've been 'severely' injured twice during my sports years (ok, 3 times, but one was at the end of my season senior year so it didn't have any effect on any sports) and BOTH were when I was in gymnastics. The first was a 3-place fracture of my middle finger, which I got while at gymnastics practice. And it sucked. I was so upset that not only had I hurt myself and ruined my chances for moving up/getting new skills, but I did feel like I'd let my team down. The second time I got hurt at volleyball practice in the beginning of the season..bursitis in my left hip. Should I have felt MORE guilty for the second one because I was hurt at something that WASN'T gymnastics? I don't think so. If you're going to a place with subpar coaching and you throw a 'full' because you want to be 'cool' and you get hurt..well then you're an idiot. Or if you're trying to jump from your trampoline onto your roof and you get hurt..well that's just stupid. But when an 'accident' happens, no matter where it happens, that's not something you should be attacked for. I lived 2 hours away (4 hours roundtrip) from my gym. Granted it was Open, but you bet your bottom dollar if I could have afforded to practice tumbling closer, I would have (NYC prices..grrr). What about a group of girls who are pool stunting and one gets hurt? What then?

 

[tumbleyoda]

Having worked for a gym that had this type of policy I have debated whether or not I should weigh in since obviously the majority that have posted do not agree with it. I will try to keep my bias out of it as much as possible or will clarify where I need to. While I can not remember if it was in the rulebook or contract (I would have to dig up my old copies) it was expressly stated that tumbling classes, open gyms and privates were done in house. There were several reasons both stated and unstated:

Stated - Open gyms (Which were debated in another recent thread) were numerous and free for all team members. So if cost was an issue, this eliminated the cost factor all the way around.
Stated - Training. The belief that the staff was the best in the area in teach all levels of tumbling. To allow them to go other places did not uphold that belief.
Stated - Safety and progression reasons. Each coach and program has an idea of what the next progression step is for that athlete, their teams and their program as a whole. It is never just a one child step. For some it is fully maxing out everything tumbling wise in Level 2 before starting to work on any Level 3 tumbling skills. For others it is once the standing BHS and ROBHS gets strong enough get on tucks. Being in house allows the staff to work with you on what your needs are and address your weaknesses to fit your team and our program.
Stated - Tumbling classes were availible for all levels.
Stated- Every cheer team had a tumbling coach assigned as one of their coaches and team tumbling was incorporated into their reular practice schedule.
Stated - Privates were availible from the time the doors opened at 11 am till close at 9pm.

Unstated - from a business perspective why would you want to lose those dollars if you were providing them the service?
The gym made money off every private that was made. At the end of the day they (like most business owners) were in buisness to make money not to let it walk out the door, especially not to one of their competitiors. This has been pretty much of every cheer gym that I worked at that the gym took some amount of the private for lights, ac, heat, etc. The only difference has been the amount or the percentage taken.

Unstated - Recruiting.

Personal Opinion on OP - If the policy was already in the ECN handbook (like it or not) and signed but the parents then there was no need for the e-mail to have ever gone out. Deal with that family and if they did not agree kick them out and move on or amend your policy. By sending the e-mail out it goes from making one family (and possible the friends of that one family) mad to a much larger issue than it really should of been. If those are the house rules and you want to stay in that house, you follow them. If you don't like them work to change them in the right manner.

My Bias - I am in disagreement with the "it's just tumbling so it doesn't matter where you go mindset." This thought runs through so many of the threads on tumbling. There is so much of a difference between spotting a skill and teaching a skill. Anybody can say "do it again, jump harder, squeeze tighter, etc" But to break down a skill and teach it to a wide range of ages, body types, and experience levels - not including mental challenges (blocks) is a whole different thing.

Maybe it is because of my background as a gymnastic coach where no one event coach would be labled as so insignificant that they could send the kids elsewhere to get training on that event. Maybe it is because there is rarely talk of sending kids to other gyms for privates to stunt, fly, dance etc because IMHO that somehow crosses a "cheer" line. Maybe it is because business wise that if you are going to cut costs in programming the easiest are to cut is tumbling - equipment, staff and classes. Maybe it is because I am a tumbling coach that works with every level child regardless of ability to pay for privates and I like to think that what I do, the way I do it and the skills they learn from me matter. No matter how long it takes if it was done safely and we had fun doing it. Maybe it is because if I can't get thru to a child I gladly send them to work with another coach in the program or consult with a few people to see if there was something I missed.

 

[DJ]

I have another question... I'm not sure when ECN's contracts are due to be signed for the upcoming season, but what if they are just paying the monthly tuition & haven't signed.

As far as I know, you have to sign before they even commit and tell you what level you're on. Just another reason, why I see it as okay for them to tumble elsewhere, if they haven't signed for this year yet.

 

[Weezy]

@tumbleyoda I hear what your saying but I still disagree. When my daughter tumbled at another gym, it's because our allstar gym was 52 miles away. We would have preferred to tumble at our gym, however alot of the kids lived far away. Anyhow, we chose to to utilize a gym with a tumbling coach we have known in our home town. And when she went to open gym, it wasn't for their help (and they really were only there to supervise open gym), but for the use of the floor to work on what she already learned, or jumps or whatever.

Now, did the gym try and recruit her....all the time. They are a business too. We weren't offended AND at the end of the day they knew we weren't leaving. Not to sound like a snob, but she cheered for Top Gun..why on God's green earth would she leave there...LOL.

Now when she comes home from college, she tumbles at another local allstar gym whose coaches cheer for Top Gun. There can be peace and harmony between gyms.

 

[tumbleyoda]

@Weezy - the things i stated about why a gym has those policies are only in relation to that gym and not my personal beliefs. I no longer work there.



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[ocbeaches]

I've read this conversation with interest, to the point I wanted to comment rather than just read. My daughter use to cheer for ECN. When we were there, they tried to get us to sign the handbook/contract and I would not sign it. There were too many restrictions other than conduct in the gym or when associated with the team. I have to say, any gym that tries to restrict what my child does outside of that gym or make it part of the contract that parents, cheerleaders, families and friends can not comment on Facebook or Twitter about the gym or anything associated with them... well, my personal opinion is there are HUGE control issues at work.When she walked out of the gym or took off that uniform she was off their clock, she was a cheerleader who wanted to get better for her own growth as well as for the team. It was a personal commitment to strive to be better.. In our case, I told them i would not sign and she was tumbling with a tumbling coach elsewhere closer to home and if either were a problem we would find a new home. They debated both things for awhile but in the end, she finished the season with them without the contract or walking away from tumbling at another gym. My impression while we were there was of a bully mentality. And like any bully they cant do it unless you allow them too. If handbooks and emails work to control what you say and do.. Well, your allowing them to do that. There are too many good options out there. My daughter left and went to MD Twisters, we moved on. I never understood why anyone would agree to the policy.. We kicked Great Britain to the curb too when they tried to contol us, Happy 4th of July!!!

 

[newcheerdad]

I've read this conversation with interest, to the point I wanted to comment rather than just read. My daughter use to cheer for ECN. When we were there, they tried to get us to sign the handbook/contract and I would not sign it. There were too many restrictions other than conduct in the gym or when associated with the team. I have to say, any gym that tries to restrict what my child does outside of that gym or make it part of the contract that parents, cheerleaders, families and friends can not comment on Facebook or Twitter about the gym or anything associated with them... well, my personal opinion is there are HUGE control issues at work.When she walked out of the gym or took off that uniform she was off their clock, she was a cheerleader who wanted to get better for her own growth as well as for the team. It was a personal commitment to strive to be better.. In our case, I told them i would not sign and she was tumbling with a tumbling coach elsewhere closer to home and if either were a problem we would find a new home. They debated both things for awhile but in the end, she finished the season with them without the contract or walking away from tumbling at another gym. My impression while we were there was of a bully mentality. And like any bully they cant do it unless you allow them too. If handbooks and emails work to control what you say and do.. Well, your allowing them to do that. There are too many good options out there. My daughter left and went to MD Twisters, we moved on. I never understood why anyone would agree to the policy.. We kicked Great Britain to the curb too when they tried to contol us, Happy 4th of July!!!

Facebook and Twitter restrictions are more and more common - our kids and parents are asked to keep all of our social networking posting respectful and expect that coaches and directors are going to be monitoring them. I have no problem with this, because as these kids get older they're going to have these same postings scrutinized by colleges and employers.

As to the tumbling restrictions, as I said, you can argue that they're heavy-handed but I generally agree with @tumbleyoda in why those restrictions might be in place. Personally, I would think that you'd want to evaluate each athlete's situation individually rather than having a blanket ban on outside tumbling, but I also don't own a gym either.

 

[fortheloveofTNT]

Same with us , the owner of our gym made it clear that there is absolutely no tumbling at other gyms. I have no clue why , I went to open gym at Gym Tyme and SIGS , and she freaked out. Totally unfair .

 

[tumbleyoda]

Facebook and Twitter restrictions are more and more common - our kids and parents are asked to keep all of our social networking posting respectful and expect that coaches and directors are going to be monitoring them. I have no problem with this, because as these kids get older they're going to have these same postings scrutinized by colleges and employers.

As to the tumbling restrictions, as I said, you can argue that they're heavy-handed but I generally agree with @tumbleyoda in why those restrictions might be in place. Personally, I would think that you'd want to evaluate each athlete's situation individually rather than having a blanket ban on outside tumbling, but I also don't own a gym either.

I view this contract in the same manner I view the non compete. If you don't like it or don't agree with it, don't sign it. If they can not accept that then obviously it is not the place for you to be.

 

[ocbeaches]

I dont have a problem with expecting the kids/parents to be positive and respectful, but you can't control everyone we know and threaten to kick my child off because Aunt Susie in Ohio post my kid was robbed at a comp. Trying to stop everyone from any comments at all is just crazy.

I agree everyone should be evaluated individually, we are working off the assumtion the coach is the best one for the cheerleader,(this is not an opinion of the coaching) what are your options if there are personally differences, or its just not working and its a small gym such as ECN.... In house options are limited. Blanket ban is not the best for anyone so why do that. You should be able to discuss with the owners but given the perspective, emails and handbook not really an enviroment for much discussion and compromise