All-Star Restricting Tumbling To Your All Star Gym Only??

[kristenthegreat]

@tumbleyoda , while I can somewhat understand how some aspects of your post may make sense (in terms of known disregard for safety/proper progressions, etc), the problem I have is in dealing with 'absolutes' of any kind, especially something as multi-faceted as cheering. IMO, there are far too many variables for such an absolute to work unless every aspect of set criteria could be met 110% in terms of location, availability, scheduling etc. Since there will ALWAYS be that one person who defies the specifications, I don't think such stringent rigidity should be in place. With gymnastics, I've always felt like it was similar uses of set skills in different scenarios: roundoffs (on beam/floor/into the vault) handsprings (vault, floor, beam), handstands (basis of form for many skills on all the apparatuses), as opposed to cheer, which has more variety of skills and uses (stunting, tumbling, dance, jumps all have separate skills/techniques even though some utilize similar form bases). Since gymnastics has such similar skills across apparatuses, I expect a gym coach to be more qualified to teach everything across the board. If that were the case with cheer, we wouldn't have need for such specialty 'tumbling' coaches or choreographers who are used creatively etc. While every coach may be strong generally across, some might have better 'specialties' than others which is why you bring them on board to your staff.. Just my thoughts..

 

[mom24girls]

I dont have a problem with expecting the kids/parents to be positive and respectful, but you can't control everyone we know and threaten to kick my child off because Aunt Susie in Ohio post my kid was robbed at a comp. Trying to stop everyone from any comments at all is just crazy.

I agree everyone should be evaluated individually, we are working off the assumtion the coach is the best one for the cheerleader,(this is not an opinion of the coaching) what are your options if there are personally differences, or its just not working and its a small gym such as ECN.... In house options are limited. Blanket ban is not the best for anyone so why do that. You should be able to discuss with the owners but given the perspective, emails and handbook not really an enviroment for much discussion and compromise

I wouldn't say ECN is a small gym. We competed against them last year and almost every team has over 30 kids and they had plenty of teams.

 

[ocbeaches]

9 teams to me is small but it's all relative. I believe they had 17 teams last year before this new improved contract came out, but i could be wrong. My cp just "retired" from FAME which has 35 or so teams

 

[tumbleyoda]

@tumbleyoda , while I can somewhat understand how some aspects of your post may make sense (in terms of known disregard for safety/proper progressions, etc), the problem I have is in dealing with 'absolutes' of any kind, especially something as multi-faceted as cheering. IMO, there are far too many variables for such an absolute to work unless every aspect of set criteria could be met 110% in terms of location, availability, scheduling etc. Since there will ALWAYS be that one person who defies the specifications, I don't think such stringent rigidity should be in place. With gymnastics, I've always felt like it was similar uses of set skills in different scenarios: roundoffs (on beam/floor/into the vault) handsprings (vault, floor, beam), handstands (basis of form for many skills on all the apparatuses), as opposed to cheer, which has more variety of skills and uses (stunting, tumbling, dance, jumps all have separate skills/techniques even though some utilize similar form bases). Since gymnastics has such similar skills across apparatuses, I expect a gym coach to be more qualified to teach everything across the board. If that were the case with cheer, we wouldn't have need for such specialty 'tumbling' coaches or choreographers who are used creatively etc. While every coach may be strong generally across, some might have better 'specialties' than others which is why you bring them on board to your staff.. Just my thoughts..

@kristenthegreat - Again I think (without agreeing or disagreeing with the policy) that what ECN did wrong was send out the e-mail instead of handle it directly in house. You are spot on with the absolutes rules which is why any program has to be careful before they declare an absolute rule regardless of what it is.

You can not say as an absolute that if all kids on a certain level team don't have the skills necessary before a certain date they will be moved to a lower team unless you will do it for every single athlete that applies to. However the way teams are usually constructed you will have those few kids who wont have the skills. So do you move them or no? If you don't you will tick off parents whose children have been moved because of the rule. They don't care a hill of beans about a kid who was not moved because they are filling a critical position, not being moved for car pool or scheduling conflicts, needs etc. If their child is moved, then you better move Suzie too.

Likewise if you pass an absolute rule that you can't tumble anywhere else you better be prepared to follow thru and this includes the fallout out - such as this thread.

 

[keepdreamin]

I live over 30 minutes from my gym so I take tumbling privates a a gym nearby. My coaches don't care because that's going to help me improve. I don't see why it matters to some coaches. Don't you want athletes in your gym that live far to still be able to improve? The coaches should be grateful that another gym would take the time to make athletes from their gym better.

 

[a0159945]

Not all kids click with a tumbling coach. I spent $$$ for over 4 years working with the coaches at her allstar gym in classes and privates and my daughter could not progress past a full. I finally decided to take her to a gymnastic gym where she got her double full in 5 months. My point is that sometimes a kid may need a different perspective. I personally felt that the atmosphere outside of her allstar gym was much more relaxed and she didn't feel that she was in competition with other kids or pressure from her team coaches who are constantly in the gym watching kids progress. Parents should be allowed to take their kids wherever they want to improve their skills. Thank goodness my allstar gym doesn't have this rule.

 

[jcheermom]

I hate Hate HATE this about this industry. Who are YOU to tell me where I can take my children and pay for services?? As long as my child is at your practice, contributes all she has, is loyal to her team...who CARES where she gets her skills?? I have witnessed this for years and years, and I have yet to change my stance on this. If I prefer an instructor that my child is comfortable with that just happens to be at a different gym, so be it. She is using her skills for her team, so who cares where the skill is learned. I don't care if you live 2 hours from the gym or 10 minutes. I can take my children wherever I choose if I feel it is better. Not saying I DO that or promote that it be done, but IF I did, then that is MY choice and MY business and MY money for MY children. Kids won't leave your gym unless they are unhappy there. Has nothing to do with them taking a tumbling class or private lesson or stunt class or open gym somewhere else. If they like where they are cheering, they will stay. No kid gets "lured" away unless they were unhappy anyway. Safety issues? Hogwash. This "policy" bothers me as much today as it did 10 years ago. I just don't agree with it. Period. OK...I am done venting on that subject now.

OK, I have numerous views on this subject. First of all, my daughter started tumbling at another gym that had a springfloor-yes her gym DID NOT have one and we felt that this was a huge disadvantage for her tumbling, so we took her to another gym for tumbling. She excelled at this gym that she tumbled at but we did not tell her coaches that she was tumbling at another gym-we felt that she was improving her tumbling skills and bringing those skills to the team, so it would benefit her team. Eventually we did tell her coach and they were neither pleased nor mad about finding out about this, and we continued to do it; we were happy at this gym so there was no harm done. Later, we started to become wishy-washy about her team and her gym so the gym we were tumbling at recommended another gym for us to look at, which we did and we switched gyms, BUT only after my daughter became unhappy at her gym- no pressure to switch. Oh, and her old gym now has a rule that if you are found even walking into another gym, you are going to be dismissed from the gym, due to her experience. So yes exposure to another gym made it easier for us to see that there was something better out there than what we had at the gym without a springfloor.
Second, my daughter travels about 5 hours to tumble and get exposure to another gym a couple times a year and she gets pointers from their coaches that oftentimes are different than the tips she gets from her excellent coaches in her gym. In her most recent visit to this gym, the coach, very seasoned and qualified to coach her, gave her some recommendations to improve her skills and she was changing her method of her tumbling and she fell numerous times on her back, not getting hurt, just making her more determined to nail down the skills that the coach was assisting her with. She didn't get hurt, just mad, but could have been hurt; the coach said that the way she was falling was common when she was trying to make changes and her body wasn't getting it. Her answer to him was "I don't think I have fallen that many times in my whole cheer career as much as I fell today". My point is that she could have been hurt by tumbling and performing such high level skills, and her gym doesn't have rules against her tumbling elsewhere, so I can see why they would be concerned about her safety and getting hurt at another facility, because she has never fallen like that at her current gym. So I can see why going to another gym may sway you away from your current gym and I can see that there may be safety issues at another gym; both we have experienced.

 

[tumbleyoda]

I have another question... I'm not sure when ECN's contracts are due to be signed for the upcoming season, but what if they are just paying the monthly tuition & haven't signed.

As far as I know, you have to sign before they even commit and tell you what level you're on. Just another reason, why I see it as okay for them to tumble elsewhere, if they haven't signed for this year yet.

If the contract has not been signed then IMO ECN has nothing to enforce unless they have it written somewhere else that payment of monthly tuition constitutes acceptance of the contract in absence of a signature. That would be an extremely shaky possibility but that is the only exception I see. Witholding team level information unless you have "committed" is an even worse affront. If that is indeed true it seems like they are trying to keep parents from "shopping" team placements with other programs in the area.

Now this is just me talking and does not represent any program I have worked at in the past or currently but if a parent came to me and said Hullabaloo All Stars are going to place Suzie on their Level 4 team, what will you offer her or if you put her on your Level 5 team we will come here I would probably be too quick to tell her Hullabaloo Level 4 is all I can offer you. I would not allow myself to be come at in that matter. If they are going to start their relationship with me or the gym like that, it is not going to stop with team placements. Some dollars are not worth what it costs to make them. JMO. (I know I couldn't be a gym owner in this climate )

 

[LoveOnTop]

it's just gym greed IMO. kinda sad that some of the TSC girls who switched to ECN can't even tumble at TSC with their friends. dumb.

 

[worldsring09]

ok hold the phone. please tell me they did not offer a new athlete their advertised double full scholarship and then send out this email because they were still tumbling at their old gym.

 

[MissBee]

Legally the only person responsible for the publishing of the email is meanj. If the email was deemed confidential and he posted it knowing it was confidential then that gym has grounds to go after him OR if the email is falsified (i would have to believe it ia real). So to all the meanj on here that want to post emails just know you are persoanlly liable for your actions.
As well, our TOS state if something is not supposed to be published then you can contact an admin to have it reviewed.

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[MissBee]

After reading the posts, I am very shocked at some of the "how dare you tell me where I can take my kid" attitude. This sport isn't all about your kid. It is about a team! If you are a member of the gym that sent this, I would hope the coaching staff would have already discussed the reason why they have this policy. They may have a very good reason. And if you don't like the policy, maybe this isn't the gym for you.

This is a TEAM sport! All members of the team are vital! If you have ever had an injured child you should understand this. When my daughter got hurt, she felt horrrible! More for letting her team down than for physical pain. She was an emotional wreck just thinking about someone else in her stunt group. At practices when the stunt didn't hit (with her just watching), she would come home a mess! If she had gotten injured at another gym trying a tumbling pass that wasn't in the routine...well I can only imagine how guilty she would have felt. And as a parent I would feel responsible for letting 35 other kids and familes(that have time and money invested) down. And I am aware that everyone is replaceable on a team, but during the compitition season, bringing in a replacement sometimes isn't so easy on a higher level team.

I understand this policy but do think that there should be an open door for kids who live far away and just want to perfect current skills and get some mat time. And before the season starts, have at it! Try new skills whenever and where ever, but when the routine is set, you owe it to your coach and your team to be responsible when and where you try new skills. I just look at this policy as to protect all involved.

There are many other team sports where athletes receive private coaching or go to a camp on their own. What about the phenomenal basketball player who goes to a speed coach on their own time? What about a baseball player paying for private pitching form lessons? They are getting coaching from someone who is not with their team, but the team will benefit from that player's increased performance.

 

[notimeforthat]

We go to a sports training facility for conditioning and strength training. Does that count? She could be injured while lifting weights.... what about yoga? Where do you draw the line?

 

[allstarmama]

I completely disagree with this policy...I'll take my kids and my money wherever I gosh darned well please, thank you. Until my children are PAID athletes at your gym, as opposed to PAYING athletes at your gym, you have absolutely NO say whatsoever in what we do in their off time. I'd be so quick to reply to that with "OK. This will be the only warning given. You are absolutely NOT to ride in a car anywhere, ever. Riding in a car is dangerous - I have no idea what drivers you are with...or how they drive. This puts you in danger and you could MISS PRACTICE. Failure to comply with this will result in IMMEDIATE QUITTING by my child from your gym. Thank you."

On top of disagreeing with the policy, I wish a gym owner/director/coach would send me an email like that - EVER. Those of you that are employed (in ANY industry) imagine sending an email with that tone to a CLIENT! OMG...I would be fired so fast they might throw me out the window just to get me downstairs faster. I can't even imagine. Sorry, but someone might want to shoot her a quick reply reminding her that she is the business, they are the customers. Sounds like she might have that backwards.

Sorry is @yojaehs thinks it's inappropriate that it's posted here...but I agree with @Mamarazzi if you don't want it discussed, don't put it out there. Didn't her grandma ever tell her "Never do anything you wouldn't want to see on the front page of the newspaper"??? If having it posted here and discussed is inappropriate, then sending it was twice as inappropriate. If it's embarrassing to them to have their email blasted on Fierceboard, then perhaps they should have thought twice about sending it. They SHOULD be embarrassed - I'd want to die if I was a business owner and people saw something like that come from my business to customers.

I would shimmy this 1000 times if I could!!!

 

[twinmom]

There are many other team sports where athletes receive private coaching or go to a camp on their own. What about the phenomenal basketball player who goes to a speed coach on their own time? What about a baseball player paying for private pitching form lessons? They are getting coaching from someone who is not with their team, but the team will benefit from that player's increased performance.

The gym that is being criticized is not my kid's gym. I was just looking at their request from a different angle. And I am quite aware that kids from all sports have private speed, agility, pitching,etc coaches. And good for them. I never said that this shouldn't be done. I did say that I hoped the gym that forbids this had explained the reason why (and I hope the reason is not money or fear driven).

But , if my child played basketball for Mike Krzyzewski, or football for Bear Bryant, or tumbled with Bela Karolyi and they asked me not to take the athlete to another coach... I would not. Gotta respect the people that you pay to know what they are doing. And if you don't like their expert opinion...go somewhere else.

Do I like the way their rules were communicated...no. But it's their business to loose.