All-Star Cheating With Over Age Kids On Teams!!!!

[debbie]

Don't know why everyone is so surprised by all this? The USASF will be the first to tell you they don't have the time or resourses to regulate and enforce their own rules.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Only if he wears a skirt and half top!! LOL!

Must of been @ UCA!

 

[redsmom]

I dont agree with this at all. If there is an injury and no one of age can fill in then you mark the stunts or leave a hole. It is not fair for the other teams to compete against you when they are abiding by the rules. What if they had a person older to fill in to help and they were flawless. I still think that if you are over age then you are over age. Having an older person on the team is an advantage. Honest or not in this case you still had teams that lost to a team that didnt abide by the rules. I would be alright with it if you were the only team in the division.

I agree, glad they were honest, but the EP handled this poorly in my opinion. Choices should have been compete with one less athlete (even if stunts don't go up) or perform exhibition. I am not sure what we are teaching our kids, sometimes things happen in life and you just make the best of it within the rules. I have seen many last minute injuries require a team to mark stunts (happened to my CP's team once), you go on you do your best, sometimes that is just the way it is.

 

[ztaprincess]

Exactly! 10 points? Hey... You won't all mind if I slip a boy onto my all girl team, right? Just to fill in because of an injury

Nope didn't you know, 1 boy still equals all girl.

 

[tumbleyoda]

Don't know why everyone is so surprised by all this? The USASF will be the first to tell you they don't have the time or resourses to regulate and enforce their own rules.

I honestly don't think people are as surprised that it is occurring as in the fact that people are actually talking more and more about it, even willing to name names. I haven't been in the cheer world long but it as been going on since I started in 2004. Previously people would not want to publicly identify the programs because they did not want to appear to be the "bad, jealous" gym. The fact that USASF does little to nothing even when presented with factual evidence has only fueled the public shaming option.

 

[magical mom]

to redsmom post:
I agree, glad they were honest, but the EP handled this poorly in my opinion. Choices should have been compete with one less athlete (even if stunts don't go up) or perform exhibition. I am not sure what we are teaching our kids, sometimes things happen in life and you just make the best of it within the rules. I have seen many last minute injuries require a team to mark stunts (happened to my CP's team once), you go on you do your best, sometimes that is just the way it is.

Sorry I noticed I replied to the my own post on redmoms post:
I am glad the team was honest, just dont like the outcome. I think I as a coach and parent would feel a little guilty if we won under those circumstances.

 

[stcchamp]

I dont agree with this at all. If there is an injury and no one of age can fill in then you mark the stunts or leave a hole. It is not fair for the other teams to compete against you when they are abiding by the rules. What if they had a person older to fill in to help and they were flawless. I still think that if you are over age then you are over age. Having an older person on the team is an advantage. Honest or not in this case you still had teams that lost to a team that didnt abide by the rules. I would be alright with it if you were the only team in the division.

if we still won by a large margin (13.5 points to be exact), and the 16 year old is even smaller than half of the j1 team, then i dont see that as an unfair advantage. obviously we would have still won. the fill in did not tumble, jump, or dance, she only did stunts. so all in all, regardless of the sixteen year old fill in, we would have still won. and we did abide by the rules. we asked the EP if we could use a fill in that was overage. they said it was alright if we were willing to start 10 points in the whole. we were, so rule is broken. if the EP is fine with it, then nothing can be done. it was a fair fight for both teams.

 

[cheer8]

Must of been @ UCA!

Bahahahahha! That was to funny!

 

[dawgshow]

Actually, I'm wrong, they're Level 1 not two. How often does a mini 1 consistently beat older level 1s for level champs? I wouldn't think that often.

We consistently compete against a team like this, too. Remarkably, only levels 1 and 2 are like this. Level 3+ aren't as competitive, for some reason.

 

[retiredl5cheer]

if we still won by a large margin (13.5 points to be exact), and the 16 year old is even smaller than half of the j1 team, then i dont see that as an unfair advantage. obviously we would have still won. the fill in did not tumble, jump, or dance, she only did stunts. so all in all, regardless of the sixteen year old fill in, we would have still won. and we did abide by the rules. we asked the EP if we could use a fill in that was overage. they said it was alright if we were willing to start 10 points in the whole. we were, so rule is broken. if the EP is fine with it, then nothing can be done. it was a fair fight for both teams.

Here's my problem with this. It's not the size of the athlete that matters but the mental size. A 16 year old level 2 athlete will probably to learn new stunts more quickly than say a 13 year old level 2 athlete.

Also, it's not the specific situation that matters, it's the fact that rules were broken by the EP.

Let's look at it this way. My NCAA basketball team has all of our point guards injured. There's no one else to put in. Do we call in an old player that already graduated to fill the spot? No, because that's against the rules. It's the same thing.

 

[Rudags]

if we still won by a large margin (13.5 points to be exact), and the 16 year old is even smaller than half of the j1 team, then i dont see that as an unfair advantage. obviously we would have still won. the fill in did not tumble, jump, or dance, she only did stunts. so all in all, regardless of the sixteen year old fill in, we would have still won. and we did abide by the rules. we asked the EP if we could use a fill in that was overage. they said it was alright if we were willing to start 10 points in the whole. we were, so rule is broken. if the EP is fine with it, then nothing can be done. it was a fair fight for both teams.

You were breaking a rule.... the EP just didnt enforce it. And if you 'would have won anyway' with just marking part of the routine - Why not just do that and be ethical? And if your routine was that good? Why not talk to the EP about competing Senior 1?

I had someone out for injury on my Senior coed 5 team last year. We had a boy that aged out fill in and just completed International that weekend. No one would have known. It was a local competition where no one would have cared.... but its was the right thing to do.

I wish I knew what gym you were with because I find it all that more offensive that you are trying to defend your actions the way you are (although, I respect your honesty)

 

[12stepCheermom]

We consistently compete against a team like this, too. Remarkably, only levels 1 and 2 are like this. Level 3+ aren't as competitive, for some reason.

It's frustrating for our babies. They are a young mini 1 and work so hard, but who can compete with that?

 

[BlueCat]

At one of our events this year. we had an extremely bad injury backstage in warmups. we are a small gym, only 3 teams, and we had a girl on j1 get hurt. we had to pull a girl from s2 down (even though she was 16) to fill in. we told the event producers about the situation, and they said we could still compete but start with a 10 point deduction. praise jesus that they were flawless and came out to win by a large margin! and then got level 1 grand champs on top of that!! honesty is definitely the right policy!

Regardless of what the event producer said, this is cheating. It doesn't matter how much the illegal athlete was used, there is no "grey" based on how good the athlete is or what skills she performs. She was ineligible, so she should either not have been on the floor, they should have changed to S1, or they should have done exhibition. This was unfair to the other teams in the division who followed the rules.

If an event producer allowed this at one of the events we were attending, we would never attend one of their events again.

 

[ACEDAD]

So they wouldn't lose their bid that they OBTAINED with an illegal athlete on the team?

Not true. This has already happened a couple of times.

 

[SarahS]

if we still won by a large margin (13.5 points to be exact), and the 16 year old is even smaller than half of the j1 team, then i dont see that as an unfair advantage. obviously we would have still won. the fill in did not tumble, jump, or dance, she only did stunts. so all in all, regardless of the sixteen year old fill in, we would have still won. and we did abide by the rules. we asked the EP if we could use a fill in that was overage. they said it was alright if we were willing to start 10 points in the whole. we were, so rule is broken. if the EP is fine with it, then nothing can be done. it was a fair fight for both teams.

Why didn't you compete as a senior team, just for that competition? My rec team of 25 girls had 24 who were youth or junior aged, and one who just barely was a senior. We competed as senior all year. Why? Because that's what the rules say, so that's what we did.