Sot Bullying

[FullUpFierce]

Ignore this

 

[LabbyGirlMOM]

My princess Hotmess has a coach who I have heard some say is a "bully" he is not nor has he ever been. This coach is hard on the kids and treats all kids whether they are level 5 or level 1 the same. There is yelling once in awhile but not too much. I love this coach's style and I love that no matter what team he is coaching he coaches them the same way. I do think my daughter needs yelled at and sometimes I think coaches are little easy on her and then other days I have to remove myself from the gym for a bit because I think they are being too tough, but I pay the gym and the coaches to be hard on her and to make her the best cheerleader she can be. All the tough times in practice are always worth it even to my Princess Hotmess when they get out on the floor and do well.

 

[cheermommaRN]

Well my youngest is a competitive diver with one of the top programs in the country. Two of our boys are on the Olympic National team and one of our younger girls is on the development team. I have NEVER heard any of the coaches raise their voices at the divers. They may ask where their head is at or if they were happy with what they just chucked in the pool but no yelling, no cursing, no name calling. It's competitive, the kids are more than committed, spend hours more time training than a Worlds cheerleader and some of them may end up with full ride scholarships or Olympic medals. So the idea that yelling and competition go hand in hand is ridiculous.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

Well my youngest is a competitive diver with one of the top programs in the country. Two of our boys are on the Olympic National team and one of our younger girls is on the development team. I have NEVER heard any of the coaches raise their voices at the divers. They may ask where their head is at or if they were happy with what they just chucked in the pool but no yelling, no cursing, no name calling. It's competitive, the kids are more than committed, spend hours more time training than a Worlds cheerleader and some of them may end up with full ride scholarships or Olympic medals. So the idea that yelling and competition go hand in hand is ridiculous.

Ditto for idp's dance program. They have more world championship titles than any other team/program in the US and I've never heard a raised voice. Competitive doesn't begin to describe them.

That being said, the best cheer coach my kids ever have, the one they miss the most, used to yell yell yell. He was TOUGH on those kids. But he wasn't rude, abusive, mocking, or anything. He was strict as heck and didn't like a lot of horsing around. I kind of feel like team sports are different because of the tendency to play around when there are more kids. (I would never in a million years be ok with some of the things I've read in this thread though!)

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[retiredl5cheer]

On a team of 10, or 20 or 30, y0u're not going to have 100% of kids fully dedicated to the point that they push themselves. That's a coach's job. I try my hardest not to yell, but if yelling is the only way I'm going to get my team to change their bad habits or behavior, so be it. I find myself yelling (as rare at it was) for laziness. I won't yell if you don't have a skill or if you're having a bad day, but if I've taught you good technique and now you're giving me crap, my anger is going to show. My favorite saying recently has been "you do what I want, not what you want." It just comes out, LOL, but I'm just trying to tell my kids that they can't make their own counts or water down their skills on their own. Don't be lazy, don't be stupid-- do your job...or you'll get the WRATH of Coach Leah.

 

[GreenStormLucy]

I think as a coach you have to watch your words. I'm all for being positive, as long as the athlete is working, trying, responding. But i will yell. If you are lazy, tell me you can't without trying, don't pay attention and risk the safety of your teammates - i will yell. Not calling names or saying the athlete sucks, but she will now what i expect and if she is not willing to work - i will yell more.
Happens rarely, but happens.

Bottom line:
Competitive sport is not for everyone. Not for every kid, not for every parent.
It's called comepitive because you want to compete, get better and yes, win.
My son gets yelled at at soccer. If the coach tells him to do this or that and he is not focused and does something else, that's okay. They want to win? Work hard. Take corrections.

There are many sports where you can just go and have fun, miss practises, be lazy. Because they don't compete, just doing it for fun and getting a little fit.

Competitive Cheerleading is a sport where you have to be focused for everyones safety. So coaching a bunch of 20 or 30 teenagers with attitudes and talking and being lazy needs to be a positive, but also though coach.
And i thank all my parents for picking them up and dry tears if needed.
Just my opinion, i know there are coaches with another style.


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[Argyle girl]

I agree with sports girl. The owners of SOT are awesome coaches. Being a cheerleader at more competitive gyms is not going to be the right fit for everyone. What you feel is bullying by a coach, may be in others eyes the coach holding your child accountable for their skills. My daughter started at 4 years old and yes she has been reprimanded by a coach in front of the team for not meeting expectations, but she learned to take critique and improve. That's life, it's not always positive feedback. Maybe a less competitive gym or recreational team would be a better fit. If it's a mental block that she has had first off we know yelling at her will not help. You should speak with the coaches about an alternate placement until the block is gone.
The actions of one coach and your perception of that coach should not be used to smear the hard work and reputation of the owners and other coaches at a gym. The athletes at SOT are hardworking due to the expectation of the coaches. The coaches and owners are dedicated to not only developing amazing athletes but also teaching them valuable life skills that they can use later in life in competitive situations.
Your post should have been titled coach bullying not SOT bullying.

 

[catlady]

If a three year old began heading for the street an adult might calmly say, "No, you can't cross the street without me." If the child gets to the curb, my guess is, the adult is going to be crazy screaming and put the fear of God in them so they'll stop in their tracks. To make a blanket comment, that it is never appropriate for a coach to scream at a young child and deem it as bullying, IMO is extremely unreasonable. Cheer is a dangerous activity.

@Tuan Nguyen I don't consider pulling a child from their tumbling pass, or "Katie why am I not surprised?", "that wasn't hard", and laughing (in the context given), bullying. Many people "stress laugh" to reduce their tension, it is actually a good thing, but often perceived as inappropriate. Can that be confusing to a child? Yes, but that doesn't make it bullying. Do I think a 9 year old can perceive, "If you lose any comp this year you guys don't want to see us. Anyone that messes up a stunt or tumble pass, don't come to us." as bullying? Yes, I think that sounds threatening to a 9 year old. Do I believe the coach meant for these kids to think that bodily harm will come to them if they don't hit a perfect routine? "No", but I'm going to shoot them an email and tell them most 9 year olds can't decipher that statement.

Bullying is the intent to do physical and/or mental harm.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Let's take a step back here. I think we can agree that telling a kid they suck, that they're worthless to a team, laughing at their failings, etc is bullying. I think we can also agree that not everyone should be a coach, not everyone should coach every age, and not every method works for everyone. While competitive cheer SHOULD be hard work, it should also be fun. You think Olympic gymnasts aren't having fun? I'm sure they're putting in work, but if you don't enjoy what you're doing, what's the point really?

I think we can agree that yelling at some athletes works and for some it doesn't. It's not always the volume, it's what you're saying in that volume. Just because you don't INTEND for something to come out a certain way, doesn't mean you aren't somewhat responsible for how you are perceived.

As owners, you are responsible for your coaches. They, like your athletes, represent you. Take the time to place them with the appropriate age group. Train them. Work with them on what it means to be a coach, effective methods, etc. Just because they can cheer doesn't mean they can coach, or that they can coach WELL. Teaching skills at the destruction of someone's self-worth and self-respect does NOT make you a good coach.

It might be a parents job to be the support structure for an athlete, but if you tear them down completely, what is there for them to support?

 

[cupieqt]

What Kristen said ^

I find myself yelling to be heard more than anything. We are a busy gym so it's crowded at times and always a bit noisy, especially when music is blaring.

It's not so much that yelling is a bad thing because it's the words that matter the most. I can yell "I love you point dancer!" Or I can yell "BLC flyer you better straighten your arms right now!" But it's all in the spirit of constructive criticism.

At no time would I even think to tell a child "you suck" whether I whisper it to them or scream it for the world to hear. Those words are just poison tipped arrows. Why would I EVER aim one of those at the hearts of my kids?


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[catlady]

I think we can agree that yelling at some athletes works and for some it doesn't. It's not always the volume, it's what you're saying in that volume. Just because you don't INTEND for something to come out a certain way, doesn't mean you aren't somewhat responsible for how you are perceived.

I certainly agree coaches need to be careful of what comes out of their mouth and held responsible, as an employee, to represent the gym in a professional manner. The OP said that their child was "bullied", which is done with intent to harm them physically or mentally. It is a serious charge that, currently, someone can take legal action for in 49 states and you can pay fines or do time depending on the state. If the OP accused the gym or coach of bullying, that may be the reason the OP did not get a response to his email. @Mclovin stated, "I shudder at the thought that what allegedly happened to the OP's child is being called bullying." I whole heartedly agree. Should we confront someone in a mature manner if they have hurt the feelings of our child? Yes. Should we accuse them of committing a crime without talking to them first? No.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I certainly agree coaches need to be careful of what comes out of their mouth and held responsible, as an employee, to represent the gym in a professional manner. The OP said that their child was "bullied", which is done with intent to harm them physically or mentally. It is a serious charge that, currently, someone can take legal action for in 49 states and you can pay fines or do time depending on the state. If the OP accused the gym or coach of bullying, that may be the reason the OP did not get a response to his email. @Mclovin stated, "I shudder at the thought that what allegedly happened to the OP's child is being called bullying." I whole heartedly agree. Should we confront someone in a mature manner if they have hurt the feelings of our child? Yes. Should we accuse them of committing a crime without talking to them first? No.

Oh we absolutely should seek to confront someone who has hurt the feelings of 'our' child (seeing as I have no children lol). But what happens when that avenue is closed off to us? What message does that send? That gym owners are unwilling to hear such an important complaint? An adult bullying a 9 year old is a pretty heavy thing, and to not be willing to address it causes more concern for me on the part of the gym owner than it does on the part of the person bringing it up. Let's say you had a meeting with the coach and they refuse to admit any wrongdoing or that it was phrased exactly like 'X.' What then? Ok, you don't go back to the gym, but then what? If the owners involved and the coach doesn't admit it- what then? What if the owner does nothing? The family leaves, and the cycle continues. And we all end up on a message board telling each other it's not that bad and we're just too sensitive..

If someone accuses me of bullying, that's NOT an issue where you bury your head in the sand and refuse to communicate. That means there's a communication breakdown not only between athlete and coach, but in owner and coach. And if the OWNER refuses to address it, never mind the coach, that sounds like more than an 'athlete' problem..

 

[catlady]

@kristenthegreat You are a kind person and are assuming you are dealing with a reasonable adult that has integrity. If you own a business and have received an email accusing your employee of a crime (bullying), you should seek counsel first. Again, I'm assuming he used "bullying" in his emails as he did in the Thread Title, I don't know that for a fact. Unfortunately, there are bullies out there and they deserve to be punished, however, there are also people that see a successful business and they don't have the best of intentions either. I have no idea if SOT sought counsel or just ignored what they felt was a dramatic parent, but there's always two sides to every story and we are only hearing from one.

 

[Cheeranswers]

I just want to point out that even though you personally might not classify something as bullying, doesn't mean it isn't to another person, and I don't feel you have the right to say that someone is not being bullied. To me, bullying is persistent, unwanted behavior. The OP said this has happened before, and I would bet that the behavior was definitely unwanted, therefore I do believe it's bullying. Trying to belittle and embarrass a 9 year old is completely unacceptable. As much as we forget, cheerleading is an activity. It is not our lives. It's supposed to be for FUN. like Kristen said, if you aren't having fun, what's the point? It's unacceptable that a sport would have a negative factor on a NINE year olds self esteem. I truly hope this gets fixed and the coaches get the proper training they need. Also, just to be clear I'm not saying that if you don't think this is bullying you're wrong OR right, I'm just saying I believe it's unfair to directly tell someone that they are not being bullied


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[kristenthegreat]

@kristenthegreat You are a kind person and are assuming you are dealing with a reasonable adult that has integrity. If you own a business and have received an email accusing your employee of a crime (bullying), you should seek counsel first. Again, I'm assuming he used "bullying" in his emails as he did in the Thread Title, I don't know that for a fact. Unfortunately, there are bullies out there and they deserve to be punished, however, there are also people that see a successful business and they don't have the best of intentions either. I have no idea if SOT sought counsel or just ignored what they felt was a dramatic parent, but there's always two sides to every story and we are only hearing from one.

Mama raised me to be a good girl (and some days, I want to curse her for that. It's a terrible thing )

Oh, of course - but hearing from others in this thread (and elsewhere) who have been to that gym and reported similar issues, I've become curious and a bit suspicious. My initial reaction to the OP was a touch of suspicion and thinking 'Was this REALLY bullying?' Then I considered- well, if someone laughed in my face when I was 9, I'd be a hysterical hot mess. I've been through the 'yelling' and 'you suck' style of coaching- but I was also much older. I don't EVER remember getting yelled at in competitive gymnastics (it was the Y and there were worse ways to get our attention lol), and even my AAU Volleyball. No idea why. All the yelling I got was in HS Volleyball.