All-Star Nca Day 3 Updates (sunday)

[cheerKT]

Jamfest does. Because I think it's double jeopardy but varsity judges do not as I understand it.

Interesting, thanks. I know there is some debate over it.

 

[12stepCheermom]

This has nothing to do with what is being talked about right now - but I can relate so much to this because my daughter has re-joined cheer (international team - new team) and her team isn't at the level of what she has been used to in the past - but I can say that there is so much that has gone on to even get the team to this point, that looking from the outside one could absolutely say negative things when they see them perform. They have pressed on and continued and hopefully this year has been a learning experience for the future.

This is where I think we get a stilted perspective when we spend all of our time immersed in elite level five. You watch the Brandon Senior Bots (I mean that in a good way, those kids are daggum machines!) and you start to just expect everyone should be like that, or TGLC etc etc. so when a team who may be doing phenomenally well for where they started or how long they've even existed performs and they don't look like WE Generals or Wildcats they get the Look and the nasty comments to follow (generally from rabid fans who couldn't make their dream team if they tried...yeah, I said it).

When In fact we're expecting the extraordinary to be the ordinary and it doesn't work like that. So, all the kids out there just working and improving get hammered for not already being at the pinnacle of the sport and that's not fair to anyone...not to the kids on those teams and really not even to the ones at the top who then get pummeled if they dare "be kids" and have an off performance. Case in point....what social media has done to Smoed. Everyone is entitled to an off year but if you're the three time world champion you're going to be flayed alive for it.

 

[quitthedrama]

This has nothing to do with what is being talked about right now - but I can relate so much to this because my daughter has re-joined cheer (international team - new team) and her team isn't at the level of what she has been used to in the past - but I can say that there is so much that has gone on to even get the team to this point, that looking from the outside one could absolutely say negative things when they see them perform. They have pressed on and continued and hopefully this year has been a learning experience for the future.

I saw them compete on Sunday. Not sure why anyone should have anything negative to say. For a first year IO5 team they did just fine!

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

There are well known cheer hair stylist now? Oh my.

He appears to be well-known at least. He does other hair (that's what I was browsing when I found it) but appears to do a lot of kids from Worlds teams at Spirit of Texas, CA, Gymtime, etc. at big comps.

Sidenote: It appears that he sets up shop in his hotel room the morning of the comp, books kids via social media, and charges them like $30 and can even add extensions. Crazy.

 

[quitthedrama]

This is where I think we get a stilted perspective when we spend all of our time immersed in elite level five. You watch the Brandon Senior Bots (I mean that in a good way, those kids are daggum machines!) and you start to just expect everyone should be like that, or TGLC etc etc. so when a team who may be doing phenomenally well for where they started or how long they've even existed performs and they don't look like WE Generals or Wildcats they get the Look and the nasty comments to follow (generally from rabid fans who couldn't make their dream team if they tried...yeah, I said it).

When In fact we're expecting the extraordinary to be the ordinary and it doesn't work like that. So, all the kids out there just working and improving get hammered for not already being at the pinnacle of the sport and that's not fair to anyone...not to the kids on those teams and really not even to the ones at the top who then get pummeled if they dare "be kids" and have an off performance. Case in point....what social media has done to Smoed. Everyone is entitled to an off year but if you're the three time world champion you're going to be flayed alive for it.

I think the fact both teams are from extremely successful large programs affects the perception too. People forget that they are a brand new gym just because they have a big name on their uniforms.
As for SMOED, although I don't agree with the bashing and there are many innocent athletes taking the brunt for past behavior, you get what you give. Social media has done to SMOED what SMOED has done to social media - and all of it is wrong.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Interesting, thanks. I know there is some debate over it.

I only know that because we did not have a good weekend at our first ever bid competition (which was Indy) and in discussing the scoresheets we were told our execution scores were lower because we had falls and that got us both deductions and poor execution scores as well. We ended up 11/14 in that one.

But cheersport they were 4/14 (got at large) and NCA they were 9/48 (got paid) so I say AWESOME JOB!!!! What improvement!

 

[12stepCheermom]

I think the fact both teams are from extremely successful large programs affects the perception too. People forget that they are a brand new gym just because they have a big name on their uniforms.
As for SMOED, although I don't agree with the bashing and there are many innocent athletes taking the brunt for past behavior, you get what you give. Social media has done to SMOED what SMOED has done to social media - and all of it is wrong.

Agreed on both points

 

[flcheermom]

I saw them compete on Sunday. Not sure why anyone should have anything negative to say. For a first year IO5 team they did just fine!

Thanks they have had some struggles. It is a different division so different expectations I know..but attached to a gym name they feel like they should be more. It is hard to live up to some of their own expectations with their cheer backgrounds and things happen - so hopefully they just keep improving.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

This is where I think we get a stilted perspective when we spend all of our time immersed in elite level five. You watch the Brandon Senior Bots (I mean that in a good way, those kids are daggum machines!) and you start to just expect everyone should be like that, or TGLC etc etc. so when a team who may be doing phenomenally well for where they started or how long they've even existed performs and they don't look like WE Generals or Wildcats they get the Look and the nasty comments to follow (generally from rabid fans who couldn't make their dream team if they tried...yeah, I said it).

When In fact we're expecting the extraordinary to be the ordinary and it doesn't work like that. So, all the kids out there just working and improving get hammered for not already being at the pinnacle of the sport and that's not fair to anyone...not to the kids on those teams and really not even to the ones at the top who then get pummeled if they dare "be kids" and have an off performance. Case in point....what social media has done to Smoed. Everyone is entitled to an off year but if you're the three time world champion you're going to be flayed alive for it.

Home from work on a sick day and kind of perusing this thread. You (as always) took the words right out of my mouth.

People forget that this is an "any given 2:30 on any given Sunday" sport.

That and and these are kids. Not only are they all minors, but some of them are at the BOTTOM of the age grid. Like, middle schoolers. Do you KNOW how many falls I had (at comps, in front of people) in middle school (on stunts that were certainly nowhere near what is now Level 5?)

 

[CindyLou22]

Ok stunt difficulty

Cali had 8.8
Vipers had 8.7

We both have same execution score of .8

So technically Cali beat us by .10 in stunts so yes let's agree Cali stunts better.


Our stunt creativity was both 4.7 so we tied

Our pyramids we both 8.8 with a .8 execution so we tied there

Our pyramid creativity was both 4.8


Cal and Vipers both had the full difficulty toss score of 9

But we only had a .7 execution and they had .8

So yes Cali was better than us in tosses by .1

So there they are now ahead .2 of us

Standing tumbling we both got 8.9 difficulty
But we have better execution. Ours was .9
And theirs was .8

So we have better standing tumbling by .1


Running tumbling is the exact same difficulty score but we have better tumbling execution again because we have .9 and they have .8

So we have better running tumbling by .1

So they are better stunters/tossers
And we are better tumblers in both running and standing tumbling.

So as of now we are even. They outscored us .2 and we outscored them .2 in those categories so they are the same now and on an even playing field.



Now let's move on to jumps ... They have a 9 difficulty and so do we but we have a .8 execution and they have .7 and you can watch the videos to back that up as that is really easy short section to watch.

So great now vipers are ahead again by .1

Now move on to Dance
Cali had a great dance as it was the second highest scoring dance at 9.7

Vipers had the highest scoring dance of 9.8.

So now we are ahead again by by .1

So with dance and jumps we edged them out by .2

The over all and creatively scores are the same.


So if you don't agree with the placements watch our dance and jumps and their dance and jumps and you can see how we pulled ahead which I would believe is pretty accurate. We also have two jump sections so make sure you see them both. They are pretty spot on.

Hope this answers all your scoring questions



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Thank you for the breakdown.. I can see all of this in the pic you posted earlier. It still doesn't answer the actual scoring question and my bigger question is how did a team like Rockstar drop in placement based on their stellar performance both days to 3rd?

 

[luv2cheer92]

Thank you for the breakdown.. I can see all of this in the pic you posted earlier. It still doesn't answer the actual scoring question and my bigger question is how did a team like Rockstar drop in placement based on their stellar performance both days to 3rd?

If teams move up in placements because they have a better performance day 2 than day 1, then other teams have to move down. General statement, not specific to Rockstar or this division.

 

[TheVipersMom]

Thank you for the breakdown.. I can see all of this in the pic you posted earlier. It still doesn't answer the actual scoring question and my bigger question is how did a team like Rockstar drop in placement based on their stellar performance both days to 3rd?

Both Cali and vipers had higher raw scores than rockstar day 1. They both just had more deductions on day 1 putting them behind rockstar. Since day 1 is only 25 percent it is not detrimental to be behind on day 1.

Rockstar outscored us .1 in tosses.

Standing and running tumbling we outscored rockstar .2 in each of those two categories so it gave us .4 ahead of them.

I think we have more standing BHS fulls and jump two to fulls than everyone else probably so that's how we beat rockstar is tumbling.

We outscored them execution wise .1 in jumps

.15 in dance

In overall .05

And routine creativity by .1



They looked amazing and solid and executed well both days but the routines don't stack up the same score wise.


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[CindyLou22]

Because "incredible" isn't technically on the score sheet. Their raw score was higher. They fixed whatever was wrong and hit the score sheet harder on day 2. Day 2 is 75% vs day 1 which is only 25%. Mathematically this means that a small increase in score from day 1 to day 2 means a big increase in overall score because the day 2 score means more.

Everyone can be "incredible" - both teams hit 0 on day 2. But the first place team had a higher raw score. I don't understand what this has to do with Texas. Maybe their coaches just know the score sheet really well and know what hits the score sheet.

If every single division was won by Texas teams, I could see what you're saying.

If Cheetahs had won, I could MAYBE see your point.

If Pumas weren't way down at the bottom of that R5 list, below plenty of non-Texas teams... Maybe I'd start to see.

If Vipers hadn't won anything all season until they came to NCA, possibly.

Still probably no, but at least MAYBE I could see why someone would think it's a Texas thing.

But none of those things happened, so your Texas theory does not hold water, plain and simple.

If judges were going to be biased towards Texas, don't you think LC might be a division that would happen in? (not meant to slight any other divisions, just saying that I hardly think there is some big huge conspiracy to give Stars Vipers a jacket in R5, but not CA in LC!)


ETA I see kris10 broke it down in more detail and I see that you have slow mo watched the video to see if they should have had deductions. Have you watched every routine from the whole 2-day competition to make sure that the judges ONLY missed deductions from Texas teams? Or just the one Vipers video?

Look - I'm sorry that somehow the R5 division that Vipers was in is now under a microscope - that was never my intention and I'm not even sure how it came to be?? Maybe from VipersMom posting scores/pics? Irregardless.. I'm not interested in the actual point breakdown.. it's how judges arrived at the conclusion of how to award the scores they did in so many divisions. I think Rockstar is a better example in this division than the Cali scores she posted but I did just go watch a bunch of videos in that division again.. and that Cali team delivered an incredible dance and as she said in her vipers post.. I'm sure it's because of how excited all those athletes were that they had just hit too. So how judges decided to award vipers .10 more on dance and to give them the win based on that?? Just seems ridiculous to me.. but what do I know. Just a parent that's been watching this all for a long time spouting off her opinion. This is a great division to use to dissect though and it does make my point quiet well so thanks for that. All top three teams in this division were so great to watch and super talented.

 

[SL&AM]

I'm never going to Target again...I leave for an hour and poof.

The Texas theory is an interesting one, but not as a new one. And I don't think Florida water is going to help anyone at World's unless you're TGLC...and then it's just a given ;p

Scoring doesn't always make sense. Last season my Cp competed in the tiny division. At one competition they were scored to the max in tumbling so when it came time to add difficulty, the coaches added to stunting (where they got dinged) and not tumbling. Roll to the next comp and then it was a large drop in tumbling...tumbling that had not changed from comp one to two. It happens. And judging, while having a grid, is still subjective. I understand wanting to have a better handle on it, but it's like trying to fit a circle into a square---it just doesn't always make sense.

 

[astaley22]

Completely unrelated but whenever someone says irregardless, my skin crawls. It's not a word and it's a double negative.[emoji53]