All-Star Nca Day 3 Updates (sunday)

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Mind you, CU's tweets aren't always accurate..... so unless you're taking about an image he tweeted listing scores/breakdowns I wouldn't rely on his accounts 100%.

I was looking for the scoresheet screenshots he had taken, they may have been in the day 2 thread. There was the regular standings and then a 2nd page that had the breakdown of scoring for each section of the routine. I'm think it was small coed, one team had the same execution scores as BSB but then the raw score was miles apart. I hate when I can't find things...to the day 2 thread I go[emoji23]


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I was looking for the scoresheet screenshots he had taken, they may have been in the day 2 thread. There was the regular standings and then a 2nd page that had the breakdown of scoring for each section of the routine. I'm think it was small coed, one team had the same execution scores as BSB but then the raw score was miles apart. I hate when I can't find things...to the day 2 thread I go[emoji23]


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http://www.varsity.com/uploads/events/eventid_1929/files/L5_Senior_Small_Coed_Day_2.pdf

Scroll past the ranking for break downs.
 
I was looking for the scoresheet screenshots he had taken, they may have been in the day 2 thread. There was the regular standings and then a 2nd page that had the breakdown of scoring for each section of the routine. I'm think it was small coed, one team had the same execution scores as BSB but then the raw score was miles apart. I hate when I can't find things...to the day 2 thread I go[emoji23]


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Same execution scores in which category exactly? Did you happen to see their difficulty score in that category for that particular team? You can have a lower difficulty score but higher execution score, so I don't really see the issue?
 
Both dances start at 2:45

Cali dance

SoFab@Dallas NCA-Day 2 - YouTube


Vipers dance




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I'm calling that a tie. I think they are equal. Both fantastic and neither better than the other but those Cali stunts.. WOW. And their double ups in the pyramid..perfection. I love their theme and their red sleeves!! Are they wearing a different uniform than the other CA teams? Off topic but curious. Can you post the third place team? We're they in first after day 1 or 2nd? That team was one of the ones very outspoken about their placement right? (Rockstar?)
 
Both dances start at 2:45

Cali dance

SoFab@Dallas NCA-Day 2 - YouTube


Vipers dance




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NOT SAID WITH RUDE TONE - I don't think that dance should of sent them into 1st from 5th. They were great from start to end but not great enough to jump other teams that hit perfect both days or that Cali team. All of whom were also great. So that brings up the question.. execution and .10 in something like dance could just be a judges subjective way of saying " I like this team better and therefore I am going to award them a higher score here..not this teams skill set is stronger"? It brings up the entire how do judges arrive at execution score award-ment when teams are identical to nearly every set of eyes and doing the same things but one ends up scored a tiny bit higher. Just enough to edge out another team. People need to remember that the Vipers performance above had to be good enough for them to edge out other perfect teams that hit both days and so much better that it sent them into first place. I simply do not think it was and that is not a jab at athletes. The team is great. This is a scoring and execution issue not a personal blow at them and they just happen to be the example. Can anyone else give their opinion and weigh in on this? Anyone have another division they'd like to throw into this discussion?
 
I have realized I tried to help you. I broke down how we beat teams, not just in dance but jumps execution.

How we beat teams in tumbling... We have more difficult tumbling then several teams? I don't even feel like watching the others videos but please tell me how many standing BHS fulls each had?

You obviously don't want Vipers to be the winner. It's ok.

I'm not going to go back and forth anymore over it. Hope you get certified to judge because you will be great at it.

Have a great day.


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I'm calling that a tie. I think they are equal. Both fantastic and neither better than the other but those Cali stunts.. WOW. And their double ups in the pyramid..perfection. I love their theme and their red sleeves!! Are they wearing a different uniform than the other CA teams? Off topic but curious. Can you post the third place team? We're they in first after day 1 or 2nd? That team was one of the ones very outspoken about their placement right? (Rockstar?)

You seem to be really sticking on this particular division. Are you a Cali R5 parent or something?
 
Can anyone else give their opinion and weigh in on this? Anyone have another division they'd like to throw into this discussion?

For what possible purpose?

None of us are judges. Even if we were, it's not going to change the outcome. I think it's pretty clear you're highly dissassfied with the outcome, but you've made that point numerous times. I think we're all clear on it. I also don't think any amount of discussion (for the impending "this is a discussion board" argument) will either a) satisfy you that the outcome is legitimate or b) change the outcome so it's to your liking. Hence, what's the point?

This dead horse has been so beat up you're into throwing right hooks at it's equally dead grandfather.

My suggestion. Take a deep breath. Accept that this is something that cannot change, do whatever it is you do to alleviate stress, and move on. There are multiple teams that feel like they didn't win when they should have (several high visibility ones from multiple programs) and there isn't this level of discussion for any of those, perhaps in part, because those people know for as disappointing as it is, judging is inherently subjective......and sometimes you just get the shaft.

It's happened to us all.
 
I was looking for the scoresheet screenshots he had taken, they may have been in the day 2 thread. There was the regular standings and then a 2nd page that had the breakdown of scoring for each section of the routine. I'm think it was small coed, one team had the same execution scores as BSB but then the raw score was miles apart. I hate when I can't find things...to the day 2 thread I go[emoji23]


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I have all of the standings/score breakdowns from day 1 and 2 saved and could upload the screenshots.
 
You seem to be really sticking on this particular division. Are you a Cali R5 parent or something?
Nope. And I kind of resent that. I say the Cali team looks great so therefore I must be a parent of an athlete on that team? Whatever. I asked for other divisions to throw into this discussion but alas this one seems to be the one that keeps coming up. Vipers mom threw it out on the table when she posted scores, videos and breakdown for this division and unfortunately it ended up being the example because as she said "so many people were saying this team should not of won". I would however like to be a Cali parent but all I see when I look out my window is currently snow.. so I'm a long way off. ;)

And lastly Vipers Mom - this isn't about whether I think Vipers should of won or not. They are a great team. It's about the metrics of scoring and how that could of happened beyond the .70 for this and that. It's the basis and foundation of the system NCA is using that I'm questioning. I'm sorry your team became the example. They were great and are so talented!!

If any Cobras athletes are reading this: Your team did an exceptional job and how well you performed on Day 2 is a testament to your strength and talent as a team. Congratulations on your win and despite what anyone else's opinion is.. enjoy those jackets and that title. We all know how much hard work and preparation went into getting ready for NCA and I'm happy it paid off for all of you!
 
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For what possible purpose?

None of us are judges. Even if we were, it's not going to change the outcome. I think it's pretty clear you're highly dissassfied with the outcome, but you've made that point numerous times. I think we're all clear on it. I also don't think any amount of discussion (for the impending "this is a discussion board" argument) will either a) satisfy you that the outcome is legitimate or b) change the outcome so it's to your liking. Hence, what's the point?

This dead horse has been so beat up you're into throwing right hooks at it's equally dead grandfather.

My suggestion. Take a deep breath. Accept that this is something that cannot change, do whatever it is you do to alleviate stress, and move on. There are multiple teams that feel like they didn't win when they should have (several high visibility ones from multiple programs) and there isn't this level of discussion for any of those, perhaps in part, because those people know for as disappointing as it is, judging is inherently subjective......and sometimes you just get the shaft.

It's happened to us all.
The point I was trying to establish has been missed. This conversation became about this division and it was never intended to. I'm very curious of other examples were something similar happened. The system is not going to change unless people speak up and point out the issues. I know that Varsity people read these boards ( howdy Varsity) and it's important they realize and see beyond angry people spouting off because they are sore losers. As I said 15 pages ago - my daughters team won but many of her friends teams did not and I encountered many many people with legitimate concerns about scoring and say what you will about CSP but hello.. she's a pretty big name and I think carries some weight. This is how change happens. I don't feel like these are situations that people should just suck up and move past. If the system is flawed, it's hurting kids and contributing to the illegitimacy of this sport. It must be changed. Our children deserve to be recognized by every school, sporting institution and the general population as the true athletes they are and all of these issues contribute to not making that happen. I think every single poster on every fierce board would agree that All Star Cheer is a sport, in every sense of that word and trumps what many define to be sports in other areas (badminton is at the olympics for petes sake but not cheer) and deserves that recognition once and for all. A fair, accurate, concise scoring system is an essential component for making that a reality. @12stepCheermom
 
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Well thank you so much for instructing me on the proper way to ask a question on a thread. I was responding as well to what was being thrown at me by all y'all. It makes me so so disappointed that this is what happens when someone shares a different opinion and doesn't sugar coat it on a board. We tell our kids to stand up for themselves and to speak their minds but as parents so many replicate the behaviors they would be mortified to have their children emanate or endure. Let me try to rephrase it nicely to make you happy..

Oh you would not believe what I kept hearing at NCA.. people were actually saying that Texas team edged out non-Texas teams in a lot of divisions when the scores were really really close. Do you think that's true? And people kept saying that due to all the weather challenges and flight cancellations NCA was scrambling to find judges and had to bring in a bunch of local judges from Texas that were biased to local teams and not qualified to be judging an event of this magnitude..that couldn't possibly be true right?? I see that a poster put up a pic of a very close R5 division that a lot of people have responded negatively to and that a texas team barely edged out another non-Texas team..this must just be a coincidence right? Even that Viper mom poster said lots and lots and lots of people are saying they shouldn't of won and this is only one division in question. If one of you has a few minutes of spare time could you pretty please explain to me how that could happen when the team they beat out after I watched the videos was equally as incredible and some might even say better than the one that won and the team that got third delivered an incredible performance on day 2 - too. They were simply fantastic. That viper team had huge deductions on day 1..how could they of come back from something like that to rise up so high? Now here are lots of smiley faces to make sure my tone is not misconstrued... :) :) :) :) :)

Since you added smiley faces... Lawd!

Anyway, I know it's only a lowly J2 division but we were beat by a Florida team (1st), we came in second (Cali) and we beat 4 Texas teams.

Just a voice from one division - we weren't "hometowned."
 
Ok stunt difficulty

Cali had 8.8
Vipers had 8.7

We both have same execution score of .8

So technically Cali beat us by .10 in stunts so yes let's agree Cali stunts better.


Our stunt creativity was both 4.7 so we tied

Our pyramids we both 8.8 with a .8 execution so we tied there

Our pyramid creativity was both 4.8


Cal and Vipers both had the full difficulty toss score of 9

But we only had a .7 execution and they had .8

So yes Cali was better than us in tosses by .1

So there they are now ahead .2 of us

Standing tumbling we both got 8.9 difficulty
But we have better execution. Ours was .9
And theirs was .8

So we have better standing tumbling by .1


Running tumbling is the exact same difficulty score but we have better tumbling execution again because we have .9 and they have .8

So we have better running tumbling by .1

So they are better stunters/tossers
And we are better tumblers in both running and standing tumbling.

So as of now we are even. They outscored us .2 and we outscored them .2 in those categories so they are the same now and on an even playing field.



Now let's move on to jumps ... They have a 9 difficulty and so do we but we have a .8 execution and they have .7 and you can watch the videos to back that up as that is really easy short section to watch.

So great now vipers are ahead again by .1

Now move on to Dance
Cali had a great dance as it was the second highest scoring dance at 9.7

Vipers had the highest scoring dance of 9.8.

So now we are ahead again by by .1

So with dance and jumps we edged them out by .2

The over all and creatively scores are the same.


So if you don't agree with the placements watch our dance and jumps and their dance and jumps and you can see how we pulled ahead which I would believe is pretty accurate. We also have two jump sections so make sure you see them both. They are pretty spot on.

Hope this answers all your scoring questions



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All that just made my eyes cross and gave me a headache. :confused:
 
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