All-Star Varsity Scoring Update: Squad Tumbling - 75% = 100%

ASCheerMan said:

If the category on the scorsheet being affected was titled 'Participation,' then your idea works. But remember, we are talking about 'Tumbling Difficulty,' which includes so many factors, in addition to participation.

Remember, this announcement doesn't promise you a high score, or that you'll even score in the top range. It just states that, when formulating your Difficulty score, your 75% particiipation will be considered as if it were 100%. From a judges perspective, I would say that this announcement is in line with the way they've been evaluating this category anyway.

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I agree with it, it puts more emphasis on what and how its being done rather than how many are doing it

locdawg44 said:

I respect what they are trying to do, but disagree with the method. In response to your post that is why High Schools have JV and freshmen teams. There are age ranges (Tiny, Mini, Junior, Senior, Open) and within those age ranges there are divisions. You don't have to be a great cheerleader to be able to participate in the sport, but I DO believe that you should be leveled appropriately.

If there is an injury or an issue you should be able to replace that person with another, but just like in any other SPORT if you replace a person on a team, usually they are not as good as the person they are replacing and your team may not do as well. (Think the Lakers without Kobe Bryant or the Colts without Peyton Manning). Without key people the teams don't do as well, just like cheerleading, but they don't make it easier for those teams to compete with others.

There should be goals and rewards for achieving those goals in cheer as well. It is hard for some to swallow, but not all athletes can be level 4-5, just like not all HS athletes will even make a team or the varsity squad.

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You're proving my point.

When you say that someone "should be leveled appropriately", what you're really saying is that person needs to be able to do all of the required tumbling for that level. We're not talking about stunting or jumps here.

And the second that we start saying that tumbling - something that isn't even the majority of the scoresheet - is the baseline for making a team, then we de-emphasize all of the other aspects of cheer. We leave little or no room for the athlete that might be a fantastic base, a terrific flyer, etc. Because the rule is simple - if you want to max out your tumbling score, everyone has to have the skill. No exceptions.

The argument you're making about Peyton Manning isn't entirely accurate. Because yes, the drop off from Manning to Kerry Collins or Curtis Painter is pretty steep. But they're both quarterbacks. They didn't take Reggie Wayne or Dwight Freeney (a wide receiver and defensive lineman, respectively) and tell them to play quarterback. In a lot of ways, that's what we're requiring cheerleaders to be - somebody who can play every position on the field, rather than someone who may bring a certain skill set to the table that's exceptional.

And to the final point - I agree that athletes should have goals when it comes to cheer. Being on a higher level team should be a privilege. But too often, that privilege is only given to athletes that can tumble. And it comes at the expense of kids that can actually perform better in other parts of the routine than that great tumbler, but are relegated to a lower team because of the "full team tumbling" requirement.

I'll stick to my assessment. I like the rule. I think it gives teams flexibility to move an exceptional "specialist" on to a team that they might not want to otherwise. It offers opportunities for different types of athletes to succeed, and not just those that are great tumblers. I honestly think it'll make the sport better in the long run.

CGAcheer said:

Where do you fin info on this? What makes the difference between rec, prep and regular?

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I think the announcement will clarify the questions you are asking. Last season the EPs were asked to report info about the rec teams competing at their events so the USASF could begin the process of creating the USASF definition of a rec team. I'm guessing the announcement will be the 1st public draft of their definition.

I have no problem with a 75% is max rule if it is in a range. I still think a team of 100% tumbling should score higher. Only if execution counts for half of it. That is why I like the WSA rule. You may get higher ranges in difficulty, but if you arent hitting then you will be in the low range of execution. This is the biggest issue with most Varsity scoring systems. 75-100% should scored between a 9.5 and 10 let's say, but if only 60% hit or are executed correctly then your execution score drops. This doesn't cause sandbagging, this is causes a team to be level appropriate. Youth 5 was the perfect arguing point last year. All this does is give an importance to ONE aspect of a scoring grid that has more than tumbling. Execution should be just as heavily weighed, we have forgotten everything but tumbling and stunts. It's getting sad.

kristenthegreat said:

Since there are two of these and going two different directions, I get to voice twice as many opinions, HUZZAH!

USASF- you wanna make more money? Bring. Back. THE REC. Make rec divisions more of the fun track but still working/learning/competing, and make allstar the still fun but a bit more competitive track. In EVERY sport I've done, there are not only different levels, but different levels of competition. I did comp gymnastics at YMCA, as opposed to a place like WOGA. My volleyball had different allstar levels based on skill/time commitment. Different AAU basketball teams were based on skill/commitment, soccer teams were different, etc. I think as many kids find that 'pressure' (which is what highly competitive people like myself called 'drive') to be too much, as many kids TOTALLY dig that push for new, more, better, stronger, etc. THOSE are the kids making it to the upper tiers. Those are your Maddie Gardners, your Kelsey Rules, your Kiaras, your Holdens, you Bucky and Tyes.

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I have been the biggest proponent of rec teams you can imagine. I still think that if you want to grow the sport, kids need to have the opportunity to compete but at a time commitment/price point that's reasonable and comparable with other sports.

I've said this a million times before - all-star cheer is not a sport you can "try". It's too expensive and requires too much of your time from the get go. And because of that, it's hard to get kids that have other athletic opportunities to give it a shot - because if the choice is between an all-star cheer season for $2,000 and a rec soccer or softball season for $200, soccer and softball will win every time.

Andre said:

I think the announcement will clarify the questions you are asking. Last season the EPs were asked to report info about the rec teams competing at their events so the USASF could begin the process of creating the USASF definition of a rec team. I'm guessing the announcement will be the 1st public draft of their definition.

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Andre, we're still collecting information and hope to completely standardize All Star Prep (as it will now be called) for the 2013-2014 season. For this year, we're going to allow for another season of 'free will' and EP's will be allowed to continue defining PREP for their own events. The PREP announcement will provide a limited set of parameters that Coaches and EP's must adhere to. They are being put in place so the 'free will' isn't abused by anyone.

ASCheerMan said:

Andre, we're still collecting information and hope to completely standardize All Star Prep (as it will now be called) for the 2013-2014 season. For this year, we're going to allow for another season of 'free will' and EP's will be allowed to continue defining PREP for their own events. The PREP announcement will provide a limited set of parameters that Coaches and EP's must adhere to. They are being put in place so the 'free will' isn't abused by anyone.

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I guess with free will I could do whatever, but is this meant for actual rec, (cheer for some other sport) half year teams, limited travel and time commitment teams?

All Star Prep would not include cheer teams traditionally known as REC (Pop warner, youth league cheer, Parks and recreations teams, etc). It refers to a new trend of teams that usually serve as feeder program into an all star gym.

ASCheerMan said:

All Star Prep would not include cheer teams traditionally known as REC (Pop warner, youth league cheer, Parks and recreations teams, etc). It refers to a new trend of teams that usually serve as feeder program into an all star gym.

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So like "half season" teams?

thecheernerd said:

So like "half season" teams?

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Yes, that is one way of defining it. The challenge the USASF faces is that the definition of AS Prep/AS Rec varies from region to region, as do the needs. We need to end up with a definition that makes sense for everyone and standardizing--without restricting--the market.

ASCheerMan said:

Yes, that is one way of defining it. The challenge the USASF faces is that the definition of AS Prep/AS Rec varies from region to region, as do the needs. We need to end up with a definition that makes sense for everyone and standardizing--without restricting--the market.

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I looked through some different companies "prep" wording and one limited it to 2 hours of practice a week. Which is great for Full Year prep teams, but a half year team may need more than 2 hours a week but is still at a competitive disadvantage to standard full year teams. Perhaps a total number of hours in a year, or just say a certain percentage of what your full year teams do. But then you run into Gym A typically only having their full year team practicing once a week for 2 hours vs Gym B that practice 3 times a week for 2.5 hours each time. And how could you regulate it?

I don't mind having my Half Year Teams compete against full year teams, but I like having the ability to put them in their own thing because it allows more options when Creating the team, so they aren't in the same division as my full year teams