All-Star Varsity Scoring Update: Squad Tumbling - 75% = 100%

[p.o.k.]

Sorry, I firmly disagree. For kids activities/sports where there can be a lot of pressure, things become not fun. Wether it is parent pressure, wether it is coach pressure, etc. Think about how many talented gymnasts are in the country and they just can't do it anymore b/c it is no longer fun. Think about how many guys may be awesome football players or baseball players but the dad's push and the son shuts down, think about the parent who strives for the best grades in the world and their kid rebels, think about the school basketball team that is the best in the state and even though the coach is awesome, it's a tough coach, the practice and the time given and the extra conditioning, the pressure to have to win, it is not fun anymore.

Not all kids are built the same and not every level 5 all-star cheerleader will find it fun after years and years and years. Have you ever noticed how few actual 12th graders there are in any of your programs in comparison to younger levels... why b/c it is not fun for some anymore, it is not worth spending the $$ if your kid is feeling pressure.

I don't agree w/ the rule at all, full squad is full squad not 75% and they should not be scored as full squad PERIOD

That is the job of the parents to know when it is time to leave a sport/activity or not. If it is not fun or the kid is not driven anymore you leave it and move on. Are there delusional driven parents out there with no concern to their child's happiness because it is be best at all cost, of course. What I was trying to say is many kids are driven to the be the best or most accomplished. Other kids are just happy to participate and that is great too. There are probably inherent differences in both these type of kids. Is there a reason for this of course - gene pool, environment, or a combo of both - probably. We are not going to solve anybody's personal problems with a rule that strives to make average = to excellent. Reward without accomplishmnet. I just hate to see potential being wasted. Yeah a great flyer or base on a level 5 without the tumbling in many cases may be necessary to round out a team. Should that give them an ou not to try and advance in their lessor skills - I say no. You will see kids get aggravated that those kids that are rewarded without becoming well rounded. It will not give a reason for the "specialist" to gain advanced tumbling skills. Admit it there are people as long as they can get away with it that will be the case. They even may be viewed as a prima donna.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Or allow a "benefit" for 100% tumbling, but harder hits on poor execution. Either way, I still want to see clean tumbling over some stuff being thrown just for the 100%.

 

[LAmom]

Glad to see that some EP's are trying to incorporate the REC teams & I hope the 1/2 year all star teams into a competition setting. Yes, more $ for the EP's but could be more affordable for some families & keep more kids involved in cheer in general. Now, it might be different in other parts of the country but where we live, you get where you pay for. Good coaches/choreographers cost money which is lacking in the REC cheer programs around my area. All star programs have taken some of the better athletes away fr the school/high school programs in my area (as well as other decisions that school districts have made in regards to cheerleading). I accept what I have to pay b/c I expect good quality out of my all star program which includes keeping my kid safe. Seeing my kid go through her tumbling mental blocks is heartbreaking esp. b/c she has the other skills of the higher level. The coaches won't stop pushing her & this change will allow them to work with her at a proper pace.
I think it also helps with those crazy parents who think the end all of making a team is the tumbling; just because you have a full/double full doesn't mean you should automatically make a L5 team. Coaches can explain that a lot of other decisions come into play & a kid who can throw L4 tumbling skills & the elite L5 stunt/jump/dance skills may be more valuable.
I think it will give more choreographers the chance/challenge to be more creative instead of so cookie cutter in designing the routines.
I've seen & worked with the Varsity score sheets for many moons & before we throw USASF under the bus, we'll have to wait for the complete rollout of the changes. There will be room to differentiate btwn 75% & 100% squad skills. Deep down we all know that these changes are a result of suggestions made from various experts from various areas & from various ages. Before we start boycotting all Varsity events, let's see what fun changes it can bring - Kumbaya LOL!

 

[kristenthegreat]

Kristen, you ARE great as there is a USASF Announcement re: All Star Prep (All Star Rec) coming soon.

This is a banner week for compliments. I will frame this one and put it next to my BlueCat kudos.

I will shamelessly admit to creeping the USASF page a while back and seeing a 'Rec' page, but then it was taken down. I was wondering if something was being done about it. ztaprincess and I should start our own 'Cheer Sleuths' business.

 

[ztaprincess]

This is a banner week for compliments. I will frame this one and put it next to my BlueCat kudos.

I will shamelessly admit to creeping the USASF page a while back and seeing a 'Rec' page, but then it was taken down. I was wondering if something was being done about it. ztaprincess and I should start our own 'Cheer Sleuths' business.

Deal! All these years of NCIS and SVU are really paying off.

 

[p.o.k.]

Looking at it from USASF standpoints, they're just trying to curve injuries, and we all know that injuries are terrible. So maybe this will be a good thing for all those girls that are forced to throw a scary skill (I know we've all been one of them at one point). It'll also give teams a little more creativity. i say fierce stunt in the back during the jumptucks? i think yes

Who is to say that in a drive to have a certain level team at a gym those 75% will be throwing skills they are not ready for. This is not a deterent. They may lose because of poor execution but everyone is happy because they are on a higher level team.

 

[tumbleyoda]

kristenthegreat and ztaprincess - can I get an occasional cameo as the cranky ole curmudgeon who shows up to encourage the young investigators and ramble endlessly about the industry? Great work both of you.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Deal! All these years of NCIS and SVU are really paying off.

...You just said NCIS. Can we be besties?

 

[ztaprincess]

...You just said NCIS. Can we be besties?

Duh. I have an extreme obsession with NCIS and watch it every chance I get. I would probably think about naming my first son Leroy Jethrow.

 

[glitterdiva]

After reading everyone's opinion on the 2 threads about this topic my opinion has changed. I see how this opens up a lot for small and large gyms to be more creative. I now am ok with it after reading @ASCheerMan reasoning on it.

 

[AScheer]

Also- has nobody considered the obvious? TEENAGE GIRLS?!?! By the time some kids get to high school, they want to try different things. I did the same 3 sports 'til 5th grade, then I dropped ALL of them. And it wasn't because I wasn't progressing (I was) or that they weren't fun anymore (they were), I just wanted to try new things. HS girls want their weekends back to hang out with their non-cheer friends and party. They want to try volleyball or soccer. They want to do something different. Might them not excelling be a small factor? Sure. But I don't think you're losing them over skills in the majority. I think you're losing them over the 'Ok, I've done this for so long and I want to try something new!' Also- for all those girls who've left for a year because 'It's not fun.' How many of them have come back?

Adding to this I think we also have to keep in mind this is the first generation of kids that have grown up in this sport the way it is. All of us in our 20's didn't have "allstars" when we were little, we had rec. A lot of these kids have been doing this since they were 4 or 5. Its not uncommon to get burnt out. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't fear the sport is dying off, I think we've finally been around long enough to experience this type of issue. It's all part of growing the sport.

 

[JulieP]

ASCheerMan has no obligation to respond to questions on FierceBoard. He is actually giving great customer service by choosing to do so. If you have a question or issue with the score sheet, why don't you talk to your coach and have them contact their Varsity rep?

I agree. ASCheerMan has always been prompt, courteous, and helpful in our dealings with him (although I think he's usually spoken/emailed with our program director TwistersPride and not me directly). He doesn't have any obligation to deal with people especially if they're being snarky, and I think it's great that he comes on here and addresses things- most brands don't! My comments weren't meant to jab at Varsity, although maybe they came across that way. I had issues with Xtreme Spirit and Varsity brands not rewarding difficulty for one of my teams this year, and I pretty much chalk it up to the fact that there was 10 kids on the team and ultimately, that was less impressive to judges and our scoring suffered as a result.

My concern about most competitions brands is that they score things fairly and proportionately based on the number of athletes on the team- even if that's 10. Per the USASF rules, you can have a team of 5 if you want, so I really would like to see the rules reflect proportions all the way down to 5 since that's what the rules allow (although I still have no idea how you build a level 3+ pyramid with 5). Anywho, I can't count the number of times it's been explained to me by judges and judging coordinators that my dances aren't as "impressive" or "visual"- there's 10 of them, and they're doing multiple transitions, floor work, etc. I also dislike the comment, "It was your choice to put only 10 on your team, not ours." (Thank you Xtreme Spirit for that. I have refrained for a long time on throwing them under the bus for that, BTW).

 

[AScheer]

That being said, I think the problem people have is, Varsity/USASF tends to blurt out these announcements without explanation, vague wording and with really odd timing. "Wiggle room" is probably not a very good explanation IMHO. The way it's been explained by ASCheerMan, is a lot more understandable and not as rage-inducing...LOL. As for the timing, the vast majority of gyms have had tryouts already and team placements. Now do they have to move things around? Could they have formed better "building" teams had they known sooner? Will they now be at a disadvantage to those teams who have not had tryouts. AND on top of this everyone is still waiting on the Age grid/rules for this season that was supposed to be announced Monday at 5pm! So, yes I agree, people are a bit sore about everything and are probably overreacting, but can we blame them?

I had already heard about this rule 2 weeks ago from a gym talking about it to the parents for tryouts. They did know about this before tryouts and chose teams accordingly. I'm curious as to if all gym owners were notified about this sooner, or if the info was sent out to everyone at the same time, because around here we knew this rule prior to tryouts. ASCheerMan?

 

[BlueCat]

My concern about most competitions brands is that they score things fairly and proportionately based on the number of athletes on the team- even if that's 10. Per the USASF rules, you can have a team of 5 if you want, so I really would like to see the rules reflect proportions all the way down to 5 since that's what the rules allow (although I still have no idea how you build a level 3+ pyramid with 5). Anywho, I can't count the number of times it's been explained to me by judges and judging coordinators that my dances aren't as "impressive" or "visual"- there's 10 of them, and they're doing multiple transitions, floor work, etc. I also dislike the comment, "It was your choice to put only 10 on your team, not ours." (Thank you Xtreme Spirit for that. I have refrained for a long time on throwing them under the bus for that, BTW).

Would you then agree also that if credit for skills is proportional, that deductions should also be proportional? A tumbling bust on a team of 10 should get twice as much deduction as it does for a team of 20. A team busting 10% of their tumbling gets hit twice as hard as a team busting 5% of theirs.

Most people only agree with the "grading on a curve" idea when it works to their own teams' advantage.

 

[JulieP]

Would you then agree also that if credit for skills is proportional, that deductions should also be proportional? A tumbling bust on a team of 10 should get twice as much deduction as it does for a team of 20. A team busting 10% of their tumbling gets hit twice as hard as a team busting 5% of theirs.

Good question. I think if a good, objective, proportional system was set up for rewarding quantities and difficulty, then I would think that the deductions should be proportional too. For example, if my team of 10 drops 1 of their two stunts, then they should be deducted the same as the group of 20 that drops 2. Is this what you mean? At the same time, when my team of 10 puts up 3 extended stretches (2 single-based, one double-based) then I expect to be rewarded more than the team of 20 that puts up 4 stunts. If the team of 20 puts up 6 stunts, then we should score the same- at least in my eyes, and that was an issue for us this past year.