All-Star 2014 Nca All-star Nationals

[quitthedrama]

It very well could be true that every team that is dropping a level at NCA is doing it because they are truly not competitive in the level they have been competing in - I really don't have any problem with that. But if they are then going to compete at Worlds or at future competitions at the level they were prior to NCA then you can't tell me it isn't sandbagging.

 

[Ashley]

I think the issue is more if you are good enough to win a bid to worlds should you really drop down later and compete R5.

Fair enough, but I would argue that a lot of the top contenders in R5 probably could get a bid. It doesn't mean you're competitive in level 5, but it's not very hard to get a bid.

But I do think you shouldn't be able to drop down and keep your worlds bid.

 

[Mclovin]

Fair enough, but I would argue that a lot of the top contenders in R5 probably could get a bid. It doesn't mean you're competitive in level 5, but it's not very hard to get a bid.

But I do think you shouldn't be able to drop down and keep your worlds bid.

THIS!! This is the problem. It's a sad day when it's a thousand times harder to get a summit bid than it is a worlds bid! lol I personally don't believe a team that has to drop to R5 to be "competitive" at a major nationals, should be able to even come close to getting a bid to worlds. At some point, there has to be a line that is drawn. Now don't get me wrong...I think the tables can be turned on this as well...there are teams in R5 that SHOULD be competing in a regular senior division and could very competitive in a senior club division. BUT, they would rather WIN by sandbagging than not win in a worlds division. This is also a problem.

 

[TheVipersMom]

Fair enough, but I would argue that a lot of the top contenders in R5 probably could get a bid. It doesn't mean you're competitive in level 5, but it's not very hard to get a bid.

But I do think you shouldn't be able to drop down and keep your worlds bid.

Except we would then have underage kids. Some of us would be competitive if we could use our 10 yr olds lol


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[Ashley]

THIS!! This is the problem. It's a sad day when it's a thousand times harder to get a summit bid than it is a worlds bid! lol I personally don't believe a team that has to drop to R5 to be "competitive" at a major nationals, should be able to even come close to getting a bid to worlds. At some point, there has to be a line that is drawn. Now don't get me wrong...I think the tables can be turned on this as well...there are teams in R5 that SHOULD be competing in a regular senior division and could very competitive in a senior club division. BUT, they would rather WIN by sandbagging than not win in a worlds division. This is also a problem.

The problem is that the number of worlds bids an event is allowed to give out is based on the number of teams that competed at that event last year - not necessarily the number of worlds teams. It seems like teams are migrating towards these big nationals - which makes sense, there's usually a lot of competition and it's a well run event most of the time. But it also means that A LOT of events went from 2FP/6AL to 3FP/9AL this season, for example.

The breakdown of bids last year was 82FP/14FP/261AL. This year there are 20 more FP, which means 60 more at large - 102FP/12PP/316AL. That's a lot more bids this year and I'm sure those numbers were increasing in previous years as well.

It's definitely a problem, I don't disagree.

 

[fierceboardmama]

As a parent...if I really want my kid to go to worlds and I can choose between Gym A right in my back yard that has a team not even competitive in a worlds division, or travel an hour down the road to Gym B that has a team(s) that are winning and making finals...I'm choosing Gym B. However, if my child is not a great level 5 cheerleader and probably wouldn't make a worlds team at Gym B, I would keep her at Gym A. But then I couldn't complain that they went to the Summit as a R5 vs. going to worlds in a senior club division. So I guess I just don't understand that philosophy.

Also, I want to point out that I don't think it's wrong that you are competing at NCA as a R5. Just that it makes no sense to me that you were ever in a worlds division to begin with if they aren't good enough to contend.

I dont believe I seen anyone say this team couldnt contend, maybe they are working very hard on many things. Maybe originally when they made them a large all girl the coaches thought the team would grow in skills as the season progressed? I can say that I found the performance of this team is on wiki. They won their at large at their very first competition. They had a clean performance. Not many level 5s hit everything their first time out. This team did. Thus won the at large with with competition that was there that particular day.

If the teams who did drop down to restricted, followed the rules how can anyone complain , dont hate the players do somethng about the rules. As the person stated above X5 was not stacked with Fab 5 crossovers who has doubles standing fulls ect. They added a few kids and pretty much have the same routine as day 1.
I personally love this team as a restricted, however should the coaches, athletes decide to let them go to Worlds with an at large I dont see how it would bother anyone. NO RULES were broken. On a side note Large senior is a very VERY hard division, everyone is always saying they wish this division had more teams, SO I say kudos for them to want it enough, put the work in and go for it. I say anyone who wants to try WORLDS should and there IS NO comparison between having a Summit expericnce and a WORLDS experience in the milk house. Been there. The atmosphere is completely different. Especially waiting to get in to see large senior.

 

[Ashley]

I dont believe I seen anyone say this team couldnt contend, maybe they are working very hard on many things. Maybe originally when they made them a large all girl the coaches thought the team would grow in skills as the season progressed? I can say that I found the performance of this team is on wiki. They won their at large at their very first competition. They had a clean performance. Not many level 5s hit everything their first time out. This team did. Thus won the at large with with competition that was there that particular day.

If the teams who did drop down to restricted, followed the rules how can anyone complain , dont hate the players do somethng about the rules. As the person stated above X5 was not stacked with Fab 5 crossovers who has doubles standing fulls ect. They added a few kids and pretty much have the same routine as day 1.
I personally love this team as a restricted, however should the coaches, athletes decide to let them go to Worlds with an at large I dont see how it would bother anyone. NO RULES were broken. On a side note Large senior is a very VERY hard division, everyone is always saying they wish this division had more teams, SO I say kudos for them to want it enough, put the work in and go for it. I say anyone who wants to try WORLDS should and there IS NO comparison between having a Summit expericnce and a WORLDS experience in the milk house. Been there. The atmosphere is completely different. Especially waiting to get in to see large senior.

There's nothing technically against the rules about sandbagging, but it's crappy and a real problem with our sport. Good for them if they want to compete in Large Senior or in a worlds divisions. But if that's the case, then they shouldn't be allowed to drop down to R5. It's not fair to the teams in R5 that are there because it's where they belong.

 

[OARoyalsbiggestfan]

Actually Infinity Senior Black had an At Large bid and then won a partial paid bid. They have competed as a medium coed at 2 world's bid competition and won a bid both comps. I would say this makes them true Level 5 and not R5. But they placed 3rd at NCA last year as restricted so maybe they wanted to win it this year! Good program and coaches so kinda surprised me to see them switching back and forth.

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[Mclovin]

I dont believe I seen anyone say this team couldnt contend, maybe they are working very hard on many things. Maybe originally when they made them a large all girl the coaches thought the team would grow in skills as the season progressed? I can say that I found the performance of this team is on wiki. They won their at large at their very first competition. They had a clean performance. Not many level 5s hit everything their first time out. This team did. Thus won the at large with with competition that was there that particular day.

If the teams who did drop down to restricted, followed the rules how can anyone complain , dont hate the players do somethng about the rules. As the person stated above X5 was not stacked with Fab 5 crossovers who has doubles standing fulls ect. They added a few kids and pretty much have the same routine as day 1.
I personally love this team as a restricted, however should the coaches, athletes decide to let them go to Worlds with an at large I dont see how it would bother anyone. NO RULES were broken. On a side note Large senior is a very VERY hard division, everyone is always saying they wish this division had more teams, SO I say kudos for them to want it enough, put the work in and go for it. I say anyone who wants to try WORLDS should and there IS NO comparison between having a Summit expericnce and a WORLDS experience in the milk house. Been there. The atmosphere is completely different. Especially waiting to get in to see large senior.

No one is "hating the player" here. I have not once said something negative towards X5 or whatever they're called. I am just stating an opinion that either 1) a team with a worlds bid should not be allowed to drop down for the rest of the season or 2) if they do, they should not be able to attend worlds in a senior club division. It doesn't mean this team or any other team dropping a division is doing anything wrong. I'm pretty sure that would be called "wanting to do something about the rules". I'm sure X5 probably belongs in R5 which is why they dropped. But I still cannot wrap my brain around why a team not good enough to contend in a senior division would choose to go to worlds and not contend there.

 

[fierceboardmama]

I guess some of us will have to agree to disagree

 

[fierceboardmama]

No one is "hating the player" here. I have not once said something negative towards X5 or whatever they're called. I am just stating an opinion that either 1) a team with a worlds bid should not be allowed to drop down for the rest of the season or 2) if they do, they should not be able to attend worlds in a senior club division. It doesn't mean this team or any other team dropping a division is doing anything wrong. I'm pretty sure that would be called "wanting to do something about the rules". I'm sure X5 probably belongs in R5 which is why they dropped. But I still cannot wrap my brain around why a team not good enough to contend in a senior division would choose to go to worlds and not contend there.

Im confused though, who said any of the teams who dropped werent good enough to contend? Did you see the score sheets between x5 and shooting stars when they competed, I didnt, wish I did, but unless you know, no one should speculate the reasons why any team or coaches make the decisions they do. Im sure they are doing whats in the best interest of their athletes and program.

 

[Mclovin]

Im confused though, who said any of the teams who dropped werent good enough to contend? Did you see the score sheets between x5 and shooting stars when they competed, I didnt, wish I did, but unless you know, no one should speculate the reasons why any team or coaches make the decisions they do. Im sure they are doing whats in the best interest of their athletes and program.

If they ARE good enough to contend, then they shouldn't be sandbagging for NCA. That's the point we are all trying to get across. Of course it's just our opinions. It is okay to feel differently.

 

[Ashley]

Im confused though, who said any of the teams who dropped werent good enough to contend? Did you see the score sheets between x5 and shooting stars when they competed, I didnt, wish I did, but unless you know, no one should speculate the reasons why any team or coaches make the decisions they do. Im sure they are doing whats in the best interest of their athletes and program.

Either they're a legitimate contender in their division, in which case they have no business being in R5 at NCA, or they're really an R5 and aren't a contender large senior, in which case, good for them for getting a bid, I guess, but that's an expensive trip to worlds to not have a shot.

Which one is it?

 

[Mclovin]

Either they're a legitimate contender in their division, in which case they have no business being in R5 at NCA, or they're really an R5 and aren't a contender large senior, in which case, good for them for getting a bid, I guess, but that's an expensive trip to worlds to not have a shot.

Which one is it?

This is NOT directed at any specific team...but if I, as a coach, was GOING to try and take a team to worlds that didn't really have a shot at "contending", I would pick either large senior or large coed. In large senior we are guaranteed to get to finals and place top 5 in the world (lol), and in large coed you have a WAY bigger chance of making finals as there aren't that many large coed teams out there. There are maybe 5 really good ones and after that it's anyone's game.

 

[12stepCheermom]

This is NOT directed at any specific team...but if I, as a coach, was GOING to try and take a team to worlds that didn't really have a shot at "contending", I would pick either large senior or large coed. In large senior we are guaranteed to get to finals and place top 5 in the world (lol), and in large coed you have a WAY bigger chance of making finals as there aren't that many large coed teams out there. There are maybe 5 really good ones and after that it's anyone's game.

I totally get this. If it were me I'd avoid small senior and small coed. Even if you get at large in the bid fest, you'd have to contend with preliminaries. You skip those in large coed and large senior regardless of your bid. They even have medium AG and Medium Coed down in the book as having prelims on Saturday and there won't be many teams cut from those divisions...but it wouldn't be fun to be one of them if you knew you couldn't contend.