All-Star A Growing Issue... I.e. Crossovers On Worlds Teams (for Bid Obtaining Purposes)

[tucknduck]

So would Shooting Stars be able to call up an athlete from Odyssey, or only an athlete from Galaxy (level 4 vs level 5)

They would have to call up from Galaxy the way my plan would work. Just as if Galaxy were to need a replacement, they would only call up from Level 3. No higher level athletes can be called down.

Now I get the whole deal with learning the skill level between the levels and perhaps a safety issue, but what the team would have to do is adjust their routine so thelower level athlete can adequately fill in. I know this is not the ideal thing to do but unless you want real reform in the world of crossovers, this is how you fix it. Also, you need to limit them. The 10% rule would be a good number.. 30 on a team, you can call up 3.

The purpose isn't to call in ringers, which is what crossovers can do but rather fill in so a team can compete. Now does this weaken a team? Perhaps, but the idea is to not load a team with ringers for injuries. It also puts the onus on coaches to get the most of their athletes at all levels and also give those athletes something to shoot for if their skill set improves over the course of the season that they can be put up on a call up list should they show they're capable. It most importantly assures teams don't fake injuries to get ringers because you have to replace the injured athlete from the lower level.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

Again you have the issue where sometimes your lower level teams don't travel to the same competitions. Then you have no choice but to pull another level 5 athlete. I don't see a problem in last minute instances needing to pull from a fellow.

 

[tucknduck]

Again you have the issue where sometimes your lower level teams don't travel to the same competitions. Then you have no choice but to pull another level 5 athlete. I don't see a problem in last minute instances needing to pull from a fellow.

While that would seem the logical thing to do since it's the easiest way to compete at the same or higher level, but, the problem is with crossovers, you give an inch, teams will take a mile. The solution to that is if you don't have a spare level 4 callup, then the level 5 needs to compete one athlete short and adjust the routine accordingly. It really comes down to wanting true reform or not in regard to crossovers..

 

[MomOf2ThatsMe]

Again you have the issue where sometimes your lower level teams don't travel to the same competitions. Then you have no choice but to pull another level 5 athlete. I don't see a problem in last minute instances needing to pull from a fellow.

No. What do teams do when that mini 1 athlete is injured in warmups? There isn't usually anywhere else to pull from. They suck it up, deal with it, and somehow make it happen.

 

[5-6-7-8]

No. What do teams do when that mini 1 athlete is injured in warmups? There isn't usually anywhere else to pull from. They suck it up, deal with it, and somehow make it happen.

True, but if there is a mini 2 who could fill in, I don't really have an issue with that. I really can't see a huge competitive advantage having a mini 2 learn a stunt in 30-45 minutes.

But I get the gist of that rule would be to have it absolute to avoid gaming.

 

[NoOneSpecial]

I think if you put in place the proper amount of crossovers aloud (if that is necessary - personally I would only prefer crossing of athletes on an extreme exception basis) then being able to pull a fillin on an as needed basis would be acceptable.

To begin to understand the argument of crossover or no crossover in our sport should we look at how one define success of a team and season. What I mean by that is I for one would rather know my success or not so successful season was compared to the same team with the same team members throughout the whole year.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

I know it won't be popular with many people if we limit worlds athletes to no other level 5 crossovers. I know Stars had an injury in warm ups at one comp this year and grabbed a girl from O to fill in. They were able to compete about 30 minutes after they filled in this athlete. Situation like this may warrant a small number of fill ins. Perhaps no more than 10% (and we would round up) of the team may cross to another worlds team. Small - 2 athlete's crossing from other worlds teams, etc.

Let's define crossovers. If Susie is on team A a team of 30 which has 3 crossovers already (10%) and team B needs Susie to fill in bc someone on team B got hurt in warm ups! Would team A be DQ'd because now they are tech using 4 crossovers? Or is team B the only one considered using Susie as a crossover?

That may not make sense. If someone "fills in" for an injury. I think that that cheerleader should be considered a crossover on both teams not just the new team she/he is filling in for.


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[imrichhowboutu]

If you are on 2 teams then you are a crossover on BOTH of the teams you cross over to.

 

[BlueCat]

Let's define crossovers. If Susie is on team A a team of 30 which has 3 crossovers already (10%) and team B needs Susie to fill in bc someone on team B got hurt in warm ups! Would team A be DQ'd because now they are tech using 4 crossovers? Or is team B the only one considered using Susie as a crossover?

That may not make sense. If someone "fills in" for an injury. I think that that cheerleader should be considered a crossover on both teams not just the new team she/he is filling in for.


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Athlete is on Team A and Team B. Both A and B now have a crossover on their teams.

 

[Cheer_Explosion_Coach]

Athlete is on Team A and Team B. Both A and B now have a crossover on their teams.

Agreed


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[just_kay_today]

I think a rule that completely eliminates crossovers will put some struggling gyms out of business. As Ms. Pope said, broad based, prohibitive rule changes have unforeseen consequences. At well established gyms, everyone makes a team because there are so many kids, and many teams to place them on. But, I've been to locals where a small gym will have the same few kids on all 4 of their teams. I'm sure this is in an effort to accommodate their clientele and provide a way for every child who walks through their door to make a team. There may be small gym owners who claim to be the exception to this phenomena. But, everybody has been to that local competition, and seen IDKallstars' press n curl twins, hit the mat with all of their 4 teams. What would be the solution for them? Who's going to counsel them on how to negotiate these changes and retain customers?

 

[BlueCat]

I think a rule that completely eliminates crossovers will put some struggling gyms out of business. As Ms. Pope said, broad based, prohibitive rule changes have unforeseen consequences. At well established gyms, everyone makes a team because there are so many kids, and many teams to place them on. But, I've been to locals where a small gym will have the same few kids on all 4 of their teams. I'm sure this is in an effort to accommodate their clientele and provide a way for every child who walks through their door to make a team. There may be small gym owners who claim to be the exception to this phenomena. But, everybody has been to that local competition, and seen IDKallstars' press n curl twins, hit the mat with all of their 4 teams. What would be the solution for them? Who's going to counsel them on how to negotiate these changes and retain customers?

Using 10 "ringers" to earn a paid bid IS the unforeseen consequence in this case. That tactic is really only available to the huge program willing and able to do that. Programs with that size and type of resources should be able to thrive and succeed without resorting to that shortcut. That is a big part of the frustration being expressed here.

If we could find a way to re-write the the rule to prevent massive programs from abusing the rule for competitive advantage without hurting small programs' ability to form teams and survive, that would be ideal. Any suggestions?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

What if crossovers where inversely based on the size of the program? And crossovers were limited to the whole program and a team.

So Big Gym X would be limited to a total of 5% crossovers because they have more than 400 athletes. Small Gym A would be limited to 20% crossovers because they have less than 75 athletes in the program.

I realize in order to do this we need a stellar registration system.

 

[Level5Mom]

Using 10 "ringers" to earn a paid bid IS the unforeseen consequence in this case. That tactic is really only available to the huge program willing and able to do that. Programs with that size and type of resources should be able to thrive and succeed without resorting to that shortcut. That is a big part of the frustration being expressed here.

If we could find a way to re-write the the rule to prevent massive programs from abusing the rule for competitive advantage without hurting small programs' ability to form teams and survive, that would be ideal. Any suggestions?

If we addressed the alternates substitutions rule independant of a crossover rule, I think it would prevent the bid obtaining crossover issue (or at least keep the numbers lower).

I can accept the idea of unlimited crossovers for small gyms only. If you have enough kids to not enter large gym divisions, then you are limited to X number (I like 4).

If you have multiple locations, and all are considered small gyms when they stand alone, then you may cross unlimited, but not from location to location. You must use your own kids. However, the only way to police this right now is the watchful eye of coaches and parents.

 

[stcchamp]

i am just curious to see some opinions on this. Say taht you went to a bid competition, but some team members were not able to make it due to being out of the country, or have a major family event (such as a funeral or something), would it be justified to use athletes on another level 5 team to fill in for those athletes to get the bid? Also, if the athletes that are used are only used to do skills that the actual people on the team throw... I've always wondered about how people feel about that, since I know many teams do have similar situations with athletes having to miss a comp.