All-Star A Growing Issue... I.e. Crossovers On Worlds Teams (for Bid Obtaining Purposes)

[Mo-Lissa]

i am just curious to see some opinions on this. Say taht you went to a bid competition, but some team members were not able to make it due to being out of the country, or have a major family event (such as a funeral or something), would it be justified to use athletes on another level 5 team to fill in for those athletes to get the bid? Also, if the athletes that are used are only used to do skills that the actual people on the team throw... I've always wondered about how people feel about that, since I know many teams do have similar situations with athletes having to miss a comp.

In all the 15 years I have been involved in allstars this has happened maybe once or twice with a funeral..... I feel the commitment level some of the athletes and parents are much more lackadaisical. Back in the day, we got our schedule in May and made our life schedule around that. We were scared to call in sick for a practice, you might lose your spot, and it was absolutely unheard of to miss a competition 101 fever or not ect.. Needless to say now we have kids miss all the time, and had a child miss a competition for a dance recital???? really??? What would happen if you took your best team only to a 2 day competition and one got hurt???? Well you take your team somewhere and fix the routine!!! A young man years ago got hurt at UCA from ACE, crawled off the floor and that team finished an awesome routine without missing a beat through teamwork. To me that is still a standout routine!!! Out of the country, other plans the day of a competition out of the question... commitment people!!! Injury or death sure, anytime use a sub, another level 5 0r a level 4 or tweek the routine!! This is not the problems people are having crossovers at all.

 

[5-6-7-8]

Using 10 "ringers" to earn a paid bid IS the unforeseen consequence in this case. That tactic is really only available to the huge program willing and able to do that. Programs with that size and type of resources should be able to thrive and succeed without resorting to that shortcut. That is a big part of the frustration being expressed here.

If we could find a way to re-write the the rule to prevent massive programs from abusing the rule for competitive advantage without hurting small programs' ability to form teams and survive, that would be ideal. Any suggestions?

I think when it comes to Worlds qualifying, it seems perfectly acceptable to have more stringent rules in place. It might be harsh, but this is where I am OK in my mind with zero crossovers within Worlds teams (meaning one athlete can not compete on 2 teams going for a Worlds bid, or once an athlete has been on a team that has obtained a worlds bid with team A, no more competing on Team B.) I get that there are injuries last minute, and that is the ONLY time I would be OK with allowing a crossover (and I am talking an injury in warm ups or the day of...not a week before.)

But also having much tighter rules on substitutions at Worlds would affect this issue, but not affect small gyms trying to survive (thinking more levels 1-5R).

But now we are back to having as someone else said, a "stellar" registration system, as none of this can really be implemented without it.

 

[5-6-7-8]

In all the 15 years I have been involved in allstars this has happened maybe once or twice with a funeral..... I feel the commitment level some of the athletes and parents are much more lackadaisical. Back in the day, we got our schedule in May and made our life schedule around that. We were scared to call in sick for a practice, you might lose your spot, and it was absolutely unheard of to miss a competition 101 fever or not ect.. Needless to say now we have kids miss all the time, and had a child miss a competition for a dance recital???? really??? What would happen if you took your best team only to a 2 day competition and one got hurt???? Well you take your team somewhere and fix the routine!!! A young man years ago got hurt at UCA from ACE, crawled off the floor and that team finished an awesome routine without missing a beat through teamwork. To me that is still a standout routine!!! Out of the country, other plans the day of a competition out of the question... commitment people!!! Injury or death sure, anytime use a sub, another level 5 0r a level 4 or tweek the routine!! This is not the problems people are having crossovers at all.

Agreed...I don't see this as a scenario happening enough to warrant an exception. Like I said above, if an athlete is committing to a Worlds team, it is completely reasonable to expect / demand a higher level of commitment and a more stringent set of rules.

 

[stcchamp]

In all the 15 years I have been involved in allstars this has happened maybe once or twice with a funeral..... I feel the commitment level some of the athletes and parents are much more lackadaisical. Back in the day, we got our schedule in May and made our life schedule around that. We were scared to call in sick for a practice, you might lose your spot, and it was absolutely unheard of to miss a competition 101 fever or not ect.. Needless to say now we have kids miss all the time, and had a child miss a competition for a dance recital???? really??? What would happen if you took your best team only to a 2 day competition and one got hurt???? Well you take your team somewhere and fix the routine!!! A young man years ago got hurt at UCA from ACE, crawled off the floor and that team finished an awesome routine without missing a beat through teamwork. To me that is still a standout routine!!! Out of the country, other plans the day of a competition out of the question... commitment people!!! Injury or death sure, anytime use a sub, another level 5 0r a level 4 or tweek the routine!! This is not the problems people are having crossovers at all.

okay. so basically you are saying, if you make the commitment to a world's team, then no exceptions should be made. I completely agree, and this is the philosophy I wish more teams would use, but its always going to happen somewhere.

 

[tucknduck]

Agreed...I don't see this as a scenario happening enough to warrant an exception. Like I said above, if an athlete is committing to a Worlds team, it is completely reasonable to expect / demand a higher level of commitment and a more stringent set of rules.

Agree 100%. When you commit to these teams, that means committing. Not doing something else when you get the schedule six months ahead of time. Those who have been in competitive cheer for a number of years, especially long enough to get to the highest level know exactly how everything works and what to expect. There are no surprises. Unless you're injured( and even committed athletes still show up to make sure they know wghat's going on so when they get back, they can transition back in) or if there's a legitimate circumstance where the athlete must miss a practice or number of practices, then they got no business on these teams. It's not fair to the rest of the athletes on the team who show up everyday so they're ready come competition time. If the athlete can't make the committment, then don't do it and waste everyone else's time that wants to be there.

 

[just_kay_today]

Using 10 "ringers" to earn a paid bid IS the unforeseen consequence in this case. That tactic is really only available to the huge program willing and able to do that. Programs with that size and type of resources should be able to thrive and succeed without resorting to that shortcut. That is a big part of the frustration being expressed here.

If we could find a way to re-write the the rule to prevent massive programs from abusing the rule for competitive advantage without hurting small programs' ability to form teams and survive, that would be ideal. Any suggestions?

Once again you've misconstrued the intent of my question. The question addressed a proposed change by another, previous, poster. Worlds bids are not the only reason people use crossovers.

The debate is heated, I get that. But, just because my child cheers for the gym you all find offensive doesn't mean my questions or responses are any less legitimate.
Once again I maintain that if you feel that the kids on Medium cheated to get their bid, then when you see them, tell them. Along from the 10, everyone of those kids worked their butts off for that bid. For anyone to imply that they didn't deserve what they got is ridiculous. There it is. Hate me now!

 

[toss-one-arm]

Here's one. A gym using an athlete that is over the age limit to receive a paid bid. What do you think should happen?

 

[5-6-7-8]

Here's one. A gym using an athlete that is over the age limit to receive a paid bid. What do you think should happen?

At a minimum, bye bye bid. More? Other gym-wide punishment (if more than one team earning a bid, the gym forfeits all bids or the following year they are not eligible.)

I think penalties need to be stiff for cheating.

 

[NJ Coach]

Here's one. A gym using an athlete that is over the age limit to receive a paid bid. What do you think should happen?

Banned from Worlds for this season and next

 

[cheercurl]

Banned from Worlds for this season and next

Woooohooooo NJ Coach ain't messing around!:enjoyshow:

 

[BlueCat]

Once again you've misconstrued the intent of my question. The question addressed a proposed change by another, previous, poster. Worlds bids are not the only reason people use crossovers.

The debate is heated, I get that. But, just because my child cheers for the gym you all find offensive doesn't mean my questions or responses are any less legitimate.
Once again I maintain that if you feel that the kids on Medium cheated to get their bid, then when you see them, tell them. Along from the 10, everyone of those kids worked their butts off for that bid. For anyone to imply that they didn't deserve what they got is ridiculous. There it is. Hate me now!

I didn't say they cheated. They followed the rules. I don't find CEA offensive. I enjoy their routines immensely and enjoy competing against them. They have forced us to up our game, which is a good thing.

In this one case, I don't have an issue with the the athletes at all. I disagree with a decision made by their coaches, and that is it. I think Courtney is well aware of my and many others' difference of opinion on the crossover issue - it has been a recurring debate for years. I would be happy to have that discussion again with her directly when it comes up at Doral.

While i think she and I agree on the vast majority of issues, we dont see eye to eye on that one. I would imagine there are decisions we make that she doesn't agree with as well. We don't have to agree on every topic to have a respect for what they have been able to accomplish.