All-Star A Night With The Popes.

[FierceandFearless]

Relatively new to cheer but I have come to conclude...CEA and Popes = drama!

And after being alive for 16 years, and especially after being in this industry for 9 years, I've come to conclude that ignorance and jealousy creates rumors and that people will stop at nothing to make another person/gym look bad to try and get their 5 minutes of fame and to try and make their program look better than the other. Don't believe everything you hear. The popes are AMAZING people and their programs are run with nothing short of integrity. They don't support drama nor do they start it. Unfortunately, just like every other program in the world, they have to deal with it.

 

[justpeachy]

Relatively new to cheer but I have come to conclude...CEA and Popes = drama!

When a gym is successful, there can be a lot of forces trying to change that. Drama sort of comes with the territory.

Glad to hear the Popes are weathering this storm well.

 

[kristenthegreat]

There can be chaos around a force driving change that others find uncomfortable or against their way of thinking. Doesn't mean chaos is bad. This universe was created out of such, you know. (Unless you're religious. At which point, ignore the very large dinosaur behind the curtain.)

 

[TinyBlondie15]

There can be chaos around a force driving change that others find uncomfortable or against their way of thinking. Doesn't mean chaos is bad. This universe was created out of such, you know. (Unless you're religious. At which point, ignore the very large dinosaur behind the curtain.)

I had to

 

[cachoi]

I had to

 

[Rudags]

 

[Underestimated]

I could respect this thread to a certain extent... I just don't want king to kick me out for me speaking too much of my mind... And ill leave it at that

 

[SharkDad]

I'm instantly regretting my decision to show my face less on the Boards after this weekend...
Though StarshipTrooper and I have had our disagreements in the past, I respect him/you immensely for coming on here and not doing as some CEA fans/affiliates have done this weekend and bash others to defend/make a point.

you are right.

Regrettably that took away from the wrong that had already occurred. I pray the truth will come out. If I can affect that at all, it will.

 

[FierceandFearless]

you are right.

Regrettably that took away from the wrong that had already occurred. I pray the truth will come out. If I can affect that at all, it will.

SharkDad, I love you. LOVE that statement too.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

you are right.

Regrettably that took away from the wrong that had already occurred. I pray the truth will come out. If I can affect that at all, it will.

Final thoughts on this for my friend Fernando. The end result is not in dispute, the facts are known but open to interpretation and are out there but not my right to discuss here. The reason I posted was that I have 2 lovely young women as daughters who are going to soon be pursuing careers in the real world and I find it illuminating, troubling and depressing that in a community that prides itself on diversity, progressive thought and being openminded on all subjects that a successful young woman is charged and convicted of the tired old default position that if she is successful she has to be sleeping around to get ahead. And done so in the manner of the shyster lawyer in a small town that makes a public charge, files a suit that is printed in the paper with no facts, knowledge or proof of the crime. I thought with obvious error, that those days may be behind us, especially in cheer. Pathetic.

 

[njallday]

Final thoughts on this for my friend Fernando. The end result is not in dispute, the facts are known but open to interpretation and are out there but not my right to discuss here. The reason I posted was that I have 2 lovely young women as daughters who are going to soon be pursuing careers in the real world and I find it illuminating, troubling and depressing that in a community that prides itself on diversity, progressive thought and being openminded on all subjects that a successful young woman is charged and convicted of the tired old default position that if she is successful she has to be sleeping around to get ahead. And done so in the manner of the shyster lawyer in a small town that makes a public charge, files a suit that is printed in the paper with no facts, knowledge or proof of the crime. I thought with obvious error, that those days may be behind us, especially in cheer. Pathetic.

I wholeheartedly agree with SharkDad . I would like a statement from Courtney, Kevin, or both about what actually happened. just the facts. did cea approach cheersport or vice versa? all I want to know.

Starship, I was 100% agreeing with your post and nodding my head along with you until I got to one line of your post that bothered me.

"for a woman to be successful she must be sleeping with someone" - well, I do agree with you. it's ridiculous that people assume that. a woman can be successful and Courtney built her own success all by herself. (my father would also agree with you having two daughters.) However, we aren't talking about being successful here. we're talking about a blatant disregard for rules and cheating. that is NOT considered being successful in my book. those are not synonyms. but hey, I guess you shouldn't have to sleep with someone just to break the rules either.

I'm prepared for the angry army to attack me. I do agree with you, just not with your synonymous use of "success" and "cheating" so I felt the need to point that out. Carry on.

 

[StarshipTrooper]

I wholeheartedly agree with SharkDad . I would like a statement from Courtney, Kevin, or both about what actually happened. just the facts. did cea approach cheersport or vice versa? all I want to know.

Starship, I was 100% agreeing with your post and nodding my head along with you until I got to one line of your post that bothered me.

"for a woman to be successful she must be sleeping with someone" - well, I do agree with you. it's ridiculous that people assume that. a woman can be successful and Courtney built her own success all by herself. (my father would also agree with you having two daughters.) However, we aren't talking about being successful here. we're talking about a blatant disregard for rules and cheating. that is NOT considered being successful in my book. those are not synonyms. but hey, I guess you shouldn't have to sleep with someone just to break the rules either.

I'm prepared for the angry army to attack me. I do agree with you, just not with your synonymous use of "success" and "cheating" so I felt the need to point that out. Carry on.

I have no problem with your post.

I guess one would have to assume that she was blatantly cheating, and nothing in the facts suggest that and I suggest that a team from an unkown gym that had a similar occurance would never be subjected to the public lynching she received this weekend in social media..

Now, I can tell you these facts substantiated by others in the room not associated with CEA. This young girl was a add on to another JR team short notice due to an athlete withdrawing. Courtney requested at registration to change the team to exhibition due to already being on 2 youth teams and a junior team and competing and was told by the senior staff member not to change them. She was told not to do that as there would be no problem due to the lack of competition in one division she was in and the senior staff member present wanted to keep the division open with a competing team for PR reasons. Those are the facts. Factually did the child compete with 4 teams? Absolutely. Was she blatantly cheating? I guess that depends on your perception and conclusions. Did she deserve to have that blog spread along the social media? Emphatically no. Ask the people at CheerSport for their story.

 

[quitthedrama]

Final thoughts on this for my friend Fernando. The end result is not in dispute, the facts are known but open to interpretation and are out there but not my right to discuss here. The reason I posted was that I have 2 lovely young women as daughters who are going to soon be pursuing careers in the real world and I find it illuminating, troubling and depressing that in a community that prides itself on diversity, progressive thought and being openminded on all subjects that a successful young woman is charged and convicted of the tired old default position that if she is successful she has to be sleeping around to get ahead. And done so in the manner of the shyster lawyer in a small town that makes a public charge, files a suit that is printed in the paper with no facts, knowledge or proof of the crime. I thought with obvious error, that those days may be behind us, especially in cheer. Pathetic.

With all due respect, this is why it is important to play by the rules, which, from what has been confirmed, was not done. I don't think it has anything to do with being diverse, progressive, etc. but everything to do with cheating. Courtney certainly does not deserve to have to deal with everything that has happened, but she did knowingly and intentionally break the rules at one of the biggest competitions in the country, and when a gym does that, it is going to become very public and get nasty. I personally don’t see this as the cheer world being “out to get Courtney or CEA”. I think there would have been backlash with any other gym that had done the same thing, particularly a big-name gym that is consistently in the spotlight. The rest of it shouldn’t matter, but when paid worlds bids are given out subjectively like they are done at Cheersport, and there is already unethical behavior proven, it blows up – for right or for wrong. I think there is a general distrust amongst USASF and EPs enforcing rules, and unfortunately, this feeling is leading to the rumors that if were true, would also be considered at least extremely biased treatment if not cheating. As far as the rumors go, I am hopeful that they are just that, and if they are, those will die out quickly.
ETA njallday said what I was trying to say, just much better

 

[StarshipTrooper]

With all due respect, this is why it is important to play by the rules, which, from what has been confirmed, was not done. I don't think it has anything to do with being diverse, progressive, etc. but everything to do with cheating. Courtney certainly does not deserve to have to deal with everything that has happened, but she did knowingly and intentionally break the rules at one of the biggest competitions in the country, and when a gym does that, it is going to become very public and get nasty. I personally don’t see this as the cheer world being “out to get Courtney or CEA”. I think there would have been backlash with any other gym that had done the same thing, particularly a big-name gym that is consistently in the spotlight. The rest of it shouldn’t matter, but when paid worlds bids are given out subjectively like they are done at Cheersport, and there is already unethical behavior proven, it blows up – for right or for wrong. I think there is a general distrust amongst USASF and EPs enforcing rules, and unfortunately, this feeling is leading to the rumors that if were true, would also be considered at least extremely biased treatment if not cheating. As far as the rumors go, I am hopeful that they are just that, and if they are, those will die out quickly.
ETA njallday said what I was trying to say, just much better

See above.

 

[quitthedrama]

I have no problem with your post.

I guess one would have to assume that she was blatantly cheating, and nothing in the facts suggest that and I suggest that a team from an unkown gym that had a similar occurance would never be subjected to the public lynching she received this weekend in social media..

Now, I can tell you these facts substantiated by others in the room not associated with CEA. This young girl was a add on to another JR team short notice due to an athlete withdrawing. Courtney requested at registration to change the team to exhibition due to already being on 2 youth teams and a junior team and competing and was told by the senior staff member not to change them. She was told not to do that as there would be no problem due to the lack of competition in one division she was in and the senior staff member present wanted to keep the division open with a competing team for PR reasons. Those are the facts. Factually did the child compete with 4 teams? Absolutely. Was she blatantly cheating? I guess that depends on your perception and conclusions. Did she deserve to have that blog spread along the social media? Emphatically no. Ask the people at CheerSport for their story.

I wish I had seen this prior to my post, and I waited 24 hours to post intentionally. If this is the case, then I feel a lot differently, and the cheersport reps should come forward and accept responsibility. It would also help if USASF would make a statement once the fine was assessed. I do think, however, if an unknown gym did this people would still be upset. I don't think the rest of the mess would have gone with it though.