All-Star "across The Board Judging" Legal Some Comps But Not Other Ones.

[yojaehs]

momoftoo I hear what you are saying because I have had similar situations ( I am a coach and I get paid to do my job and I do it well IMO ). It is extremely frustrating to compete a routine and get scored one way let's say at XYZ regional and then on the same score sheet at XYZ national you get completely different scores. Legalities, well that's a lot more cut and dry than scores. Either it is legal or it isn't. I would much rather get a legality at a regional than travel across the country to that same company and get popped. As much as I 100% agree that it's the coaches responsibility, I also think that EP's should be held liable for allowing illegal elements. If you don't have the resources to have every routine looked at in detail then you shouldn't be hosting an event. Now with ALL this being said, yes there is human error and somethings just get missed. I will even go a step further and say I know I've spoken to Andre and other Safety/Legality judges and I know there are e-mails sent out among them letting each other know legalities that are being missed and legalities to look for so that later in the season legalities are caught more than early.

 

[yojaehs]

Judges Association anyone?

 

[ASCheerMan]

I think the bigger issue is that we have a set of Safety Rules that are relatively complex that have to be applied to up to 32 or 36 athletes at any given time performing various, visual skills simulataneously on sections of the mat that can be nearly 60 feet apart from eachother for 2 and a half minutes. Even Andre's 10 best judges (and Andre for that matter) are incapable of applying every rule fairly and catching every skill on the mat. Basically, if its an expectation for a Safety Judge to catch every infraction after watching a routine one time, then expect that judge to fail. It's humanly impossible.

 

[CheerBank]

Sorry you do not believed this happened, but you were not at this particular comp, Acedad.........as Cheerbank says, judges do make mistakes too.

They do, we've seen it. Which is why I know where you are coming from and understand your frustration. But it is also true that sometimes something was illegal all along and was just not blatant so not picked up, or as ACEDAD and cupieqt said, a small unintentional change or adjustment even in the grip was made that 6th time and that is what made it illegal.

 

[drewpate]

I think the bigger issue is that we have a set of Safety Rules that are relatively complex that have to be applied to up to 32 or 36 athletes at any given time performing various, visual skills simulataneously on sections of the mat that can be nearly 60 feet apart from eachother for 2 and a half minutes. Even Andre's 10 best judges (and Andre for that matter) are incapable of applying every rule fairly and catching every skill on the mat. Basically, if its an expectation for a Safety Judge to catch every infraction after watching a routine one time, then expect that judge to fail. It's humanly impossible.

Very true. I caught a legality on a worlds finals team that the legality judges on that panel missed and don't blame them at all. I saw it from a good angle live and perfect angle on a video and it was clear, however from a straight on view it was on the edge of the floor in a transition with 10+ other elements going on. Very hard to see.

I've so had a team win with three stunt drops that weren't deducted (been on both sides of that, winning and losing) but talked to the other coach and calmed him down when I explained to him that the routine broke a cut and dry legality. He then directed his dissapointment to the judges that missed everything (I shared his feelings on that particular panel even though we won) and the fact that he had paid to have his routine reviewed by another bigger EP's legality review service and they said it was legal (on a very simple rule it made me super angry that subpar judges or noncertified safety judges are making money doing that, and doing it badly, when all you have to do is text les who makes every effort to give you a review of the skill fast, free, and most important, accurately)

 

[kristenthegreat]

Sorry for 2 posts, too late to edit.

You got responses from Andre ASCheerMan kingston and ACEDAD. I've NEVER gotten responses from all 4 of them. That's about as well respected in this industry as it gets (minus about 3 or 4 other people). I'd take their word and be satisfied that I got an answer. You won't get a more honest, correct answer from anyone else.

I miss you every minute you're not here. Just so you know..

 

[poofofsecrets]

I see this happening a lot. We used to have to change our stunts for specific competitions because they were illegall at that specific comp. I thought there was standards that all cheer people agreed on..? Like "this is whats legal for this level to do and this is what's not" I guess I'm wrong..

 

[ACEDAD]

I see this happening a lot. We used to have to change our stunts for specific competitions because they were illegall at that specific comp. I thought there was standards that all cheer people agreed on..? Like "this is whats legal for this level to do and this is what's not" I guess I'm wrong..

When you say "used to" if you mean prior to 2004, then you are right. If you mean since that time, I would like to know examples.

 

[Just-a-Mom]

I miss you every minute you're not here. Just so you know..

Aw... I miss you guys too (that's why I'm on this reeeeally long extended visit). Lucky for you between the teachers strike and sick kid we've been home for almost 3 weeks now. I'm hoping to get her into a 5th grade classroom before October... (Dr says Wednesday or Thursday she might be able to go back! Woo hoo!) Then I'll be busy again. But I'm enjoying my fierceboard visit tremendously!

momoftoo I get where you're coming from that it would have been nice to hear it at the first comp so you could fix it right away, instead of later in the season as you get to bigger comps and nationals. Hopefully this season everything will be checked, double checked, and triple checked and you'll have no problems.

 

[cheermomforever]

Aw... I miss you guys too (that's why I'm on this reeeeally long extended visit). Lucky for you between the teachers strike and sick kid we've been home for almost 3 weeks now. I'm hoping to get her into a 5th grade classroom before October... (Dr says Wednesday or Thursday she might be able to go back! Woo hoo!) Then I'll be busy again. But I'm enjoying my fierceboard visit tremendously!

momoftoo I get where you're coming from that it would have been nice to hear it at the first comp so you could fix it right away, instead of later in the season as you get to bigger comps and nationals. Hopefully this season everything will be checked, double checked, and triple checked and you'll have no problems.

Unfortunately even bigger ones are not perfect and miss things too (athletic championships)...........but yes to a great 2012-2013 season to all!!

 

[poofofsecrets]

When you say "used to" if you mean prior to 2004, then you are right. If you mean since that time, I would like to know examples.

yeah! It was around 2004ish..