All-Star Combining Divisions

[crazycheermom]

We had this situation happen a few weeks back. The coed SR 4 team (which had I think 4 boys, but may have been 3) was combined with all girl Sr. 4. I remembered looking up the rule a few years back. I think the rules used to be up to Jr. 3, you could combine. However, now the new statement says that if there would be only 1 team in 1 division, they can combine whatever division(s). So I am thinking that what we ended up with was a LARGE COED Sr. 4 competing against Small Sr. 4. Now, don't hold me to the small and large, but I am positive they had 3-4 boys. That is the one rule that I totally disagree with. When you are talking about having boys as bases competing with all girl teams, I think the majority of the time, the advantage is going to go to the coed team.

 

[ACEDAD]

We had this situation happen a few weeks back. The coed SR 4 team (which had I think 4 boys, but may have been 3) was combined with all girl Sr. 4. I remembered looking up the rule a few years back. I think the rules used to be up to Jr. 3, you could combine. However, now the new statement says that if there would be only 1 team in 1 division, they can combine whatever division(s). So I am thinking that what we ended up with was a LARGE COED Sr. 4 competing against Small Sr. 4. Now, don't hold me to the small and large, but I am positive they had 3-4 boys. That is the one rule that I totally disagree with. When you are talking about having boys as bases competing with all girl teams, I think the majority of the time, the advantage is going to go to the coed team.

The alternative is NO competition. What's the point in that?

 

[crazycheermom]

Well, in my opinion, either way ends up about the same. Let me clairify by saying that it would have been the coed team with no competition. The all girl division would have had 3 teams. Not sure what the best answer is, but having coed vs all girl at that level can just be kind of tough.

 

[ryann3794]

not sure how thats fair...especially at a jamfest event. I was just looking at the score sheets & coed teams are scored differently and can actually score higher.

I'm pretty sure they didn't use the coed score sheet

 

[socratesofcheer]

We really need to change the mindset from combining division to splitting divisions. A team should register for an event assuming they are competing against every team of the same age/level combo until there are enough teams to split.

Drop large and small and make all division max out at 24 people.

The scoresheets shouldn't take much to adjust.

I'm pretty sure this is the way it currently is and has been for the the past 2? years. You sign up for senior 5 and when there are 2 small and 2 large it is split into large and small. There is also some rule for small-gyms that is similar as well.

Your 24 person team idea you always bring up. I'm curious as to why. It would definitely hurt larger gyms. Are you against a gym having more than one team per level?

 

[socratesofcheer]

@andre @FamousRudags

from the USASF website

WHEN TO SPLIT DIVISIONS:
SMALL/LARGE SPLITS
Event producers will split the division into “Small” and “Large” divisions when there are at least two teams that will ultimately be registered in each respective division. The designation of “Small” and “Large” divisions must follow the team sizes below: Small = 5 – 20 members Large = 21 –members

 

[#team_jagz]

Would they ever combine large coed with medium? Like when they had cheer extreme against stingrays and Orlando at BUTBT? Maybe they will have TOPGUN against Georgia

 

[ACEDAD]

Would they ever combine large coed with medium? Like when they had cheer extreme against stingrays and Orlando at BUTBT? Maybe they will have TOPGUN against Georgia

It's not combining, it's splitting (as @Andre mentioned above). All large/small/coed/all girl teams start off with only age and level separating them. Then as two teams are available in a division, they are split.

So, if there is one medium coed and one large coed, they will compete against each other.

 

[Deleted member 15]

I'm pretty sure this is the way it currently is and has been for the the past 2? years. You sign up for senior 5 and when there are 2 small and 2 large it is split into large and small. There is also some rule for small-gyms that is similar as well.

Close, but that only addresses Large/Small splits, not Coed and All Girl.

Your 24 person team idea you always bring up. I'm curious as to why. It would definitely hurt larger gyms. Are you against a gym having more than one team per level?

No. It would be the gyms choice to only have one team in a division, not a rule saying they couldn't. Overall I would like to see the average number of teams per division increased. I kept stats for 225 events last season and the average division size was 3.25 teams. Just looking at 34 Worlds qualifiers it was 4.65. I think those are too low and we should be pushing for at least 8. 24 is a way to move towards that, but not the objective itself.

This was the short answer, if you want the long one please start a new topic so we don't hijack this one.

 

[jennarap]

Would they ever combine large coed with medium? Like when they had cheer extreme against stingrays and Orlando at BUTBT? Maybe they will have TOPGUN against Georgia

Yes. Last year at a lot of our competitions our small coed team went against medium because the medium team was the only one in there division.

This I completely understand but when it's a all girl and a coed I don't. On the jam brands score sheet for coed theres a whole separate category for coed stunt difficulty. Would they end up using the all girl score sheet if the division was ever combined?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I was under the impression of the following:
Everyone is in senior level 5. When there gets to be more than 2 teams with 20 or under and more than 2 teams with 21 + then they split it into large and small. They then split it into medium when there are 2 teams with 21-30 and 2 teams with 31-36. So by this, you can assume that medium senior and large senior all girl can compete together at every competition besides dallas as of now.

Coed is split out after the divisions are split by size. Meaning small coed and small all girl would be in the same division before small all girl and large all girl.

 

[King]

I was under the impression of the following:
Everyone is in senior level 5. When there gets to be more than 2 teams with 20 or under and more than 2 teams with 21 + then they split it into large and small. They then split it into medium when there are 2 teams with 21-30 and 2 teams with 31-36. So by this, you can assume that medium senior and large senior all girl can compete together at every competition besides dallas as of now.

Coed is split out after the divisions are split by size. Meaning small coed and small all girl would be in the same division before small all girl and large all girl.

Yep. being as there are only 3 large senior teams they will be competing with medium all year long except the 1 or 2 competitions they are together. Until next year when there is no more large.

 

[King]

I was under the impression of the following:
Everyone is in senior level 5. When there gets to be more than 2 teams with 20 or under and more than 2 teams with 21 + then they split it into large and small. They then split it into medium when there are 2 teams with 21-30 and 2 teams with 31-36. So by this, you can assume that medium senior and large senior all girl can compete together at every competition besides dallas as of now.

Coed is split out after the divisions are split by size. Meaning small coed and small all girl would be in the same division before small all girl and large all girl.

Actually, I read that completely wrong. So, at BUTBT, if there is only one large senior team and a couple of coed teams the large senior will go against the coed team?

 

[imrichhowboutu]

This is how i think it will go.

If there are these teams:
5 small senior
5 small coed
5 medium senior
5 medium coed
1 large senior
2 large coed
Total of 23 senior 5 teams.

It will first be split into 10 small teams and 13 large teams.
The small teams will be then split into 5 coed and 5 all girl.
Then the 13 large teams would be split by 10 medium teams and 3 large teams.
The medium teams would then be split into 5 coed and 5 all girl.
Large senior would remain.

However, the following notes are made in the rules:

NOTE: Event producers will split divisions first by size (when applicable) and then by co-ed vs. all girl (when applicable).
NOTE: Event producers will split the Senior Level 5 division into “Small” and/or “Medium” and/or “Large” divisions when there are at least two teams that will ultimately be registered in each respective division
NOTE: An event producer must keep teams of 21 – 36 members in “Large” division, unless there are enough teams to split 2 teams each into “Medium” and “Large.”
NOTE: For Worlds qualifying divisions at an event where Worlds bids will be awarded, an event producer may leave Senior Level 5 divisions split regardless of the number of teams competing in them.

Maybe the split by size then by coed will mean the following:
It will first be split into 10 small teams and 13 large teams.
The small teams will be then split into 5 coed and 5 all girl.
Then the 13 large teams would be split by 7 coed and 6 all girl
Then coed would be split by large and medium since that would leave 2 teams in each division.

 

[p.o.k.]

If you think about it for bids all level 5 and 6 divisions compete against each other - does not matter the size of the team. Some competitions do not guarantee a full paid to an all girl and coed - if there is more than one bid.