Crazy ideas for improving the all-star industry

[tumbleyoda]

Since most of my suggestions have already been presented by others...carry on & I will enjoy the discussion.

 

[illinoisohyeah]

i love this thread a lot. there are really good point being made that really should be considered!

 

[kyyyyyyxo]

hahah i would like worlds to be held in madison square garden so i can actually get a seat not the stairs or floor..

 

[Underestimated]

Replying to king's repsonse about rotating states/venues for worlds

i think regardless of where "cheer started" if it started in FL,TX,NY,ALASKA. i dont think it really matters where it started the competitors and coaches are going to worlds for one thing and that is to get that worlds ring. not to know where cheer started.

i think it would be a great thing to move worlds kids getting to travel see new places bigger venues.
i think usasf should start doing them at like stadiums/collesiums

I personally think it should be in the Dallas convention center. The hands down best arena for competition and it's centrally located with a good airport.

Worlds comes down to money. They have so many at large bids because that many teams are willing to come to Disney and pay their money to get te chance to compete. Less people will go of the comp is in Cali ao I do not think it would ver get moves there.

i dont see why dallas would be a bad place to have it.. sounds good to me

but saying that if it was moved to cali NOT AS MANY teams would go i highly disagree like i said.. team and coaches want those world titles and ring under their name/gym...

USASF should look into bigger venues period. they would make alot more money.

 

[BlueCat]

Reasons for a Worlds rotation. (Maybe 2 years FL, 1 year Cali?)

1. Milk House is dramatically inferior to the Anaheim Convention Center. If you have been to both, it's not even sort of close. Given the # of teams we have, it is simply crazy to keep trying to stuff everyone into the Milk House.

2. It isn't fair to give the same exact teams the travel advantages every year. If there are 2/3 more athletes that are closer to Orlando than Los Angeles, then have Worlds in Orlando 2/3 of the time.

3. It is more interesting for athletes/spectators to go to different places occasionally. After a few years in a row, even DisneyWorld gets old.

4. Hotels/Parks/Arena closer together. Transportation isn't provided for as well in Anaheim as it is in Orlando. However, that is because there isn't a NEED to provide that type of transportation. Everything is right there. The hotels are essentially across the street from the convention center and from Disney. In the same amount of time it takes you to walk to your bus stop in Orlando, you could have already walked to the convention center (or park) from your hotel in Anaheim.

5. The park-hopper/theme park expense would be much more manageable. You wouldn't have to go through Disney property to get to the competition. If you were on a tight budget, you wouldn't even have to set foot in the Disney complex. This could save several hundred dollars per athlete - if you wanted.

 

[Jessica]

Replying to king's repsonse about rotating states/venues for worlds

i think regardless of where "cheer started" if it started in FL,TX,NY,ALASKA. i dont think it really matters where it started the competitors and coaches are going to worlds for one thing and that is to get that worlds ring. not to know where cheer started.

i think it would be a great thing to move worlds kids getting to travel see new places bigger venues.
i think usasf should start doing them at like stadiums/collesiums

I personally think it should be in the Dallas convention center. The hands down best arena for competition and it's centrally located with a good airport.

Worlds comes down to money. They have so many at large bids because that many teams are willing to come to Disney and pay their money to get te chance to compete. Less people will go of the comp is in Cali ao I do not think it would ver get moves there.

i dont see why dallas would be a bad place to have it.. sounds good to me



but saying that if it was moved to cali NOT AS MANY teams would go i highly disagree like i said.. team and coaches want those world titles and ring under their name/gym...

i think rotating it between texas and fl wouldnt be a bad idea but i think cali is too far since the majority of cheerleaders come from the east coast (and i dont think as many people would go if it was all the way out in cali. California just isnt logistically optimal for cheerleading as of now)

 

[blunchin]

i mean airfare isn't going to THAT much more expensive to travel to california, especially when you look at all the money you're putting out anyway. also a lot of the "east coast" teams earn paid bids so the travel expense isn't going to be an issue there. it almost seems that this is steering in the direction of the "less teams going to worlds" discussion. i'm an east coaster and i can deal without the milkhouse's overly expensive food. let's switch it up.

 

[Underestimated]

Reasons for a Worlds rotation. (Maybe 2 years FL, 1 year Cali?)

1. Milk House is dramatically inferior to the Anaheim Convention Center. If you have been to both, it's not even sort of close. Given the # of teams we have, it is simply crazy to keep trying to stuff everyone into the Milk House.

2. It isn't fair to give the same exact teams the travel advantages every year. If there are 2/3 more athletes that are closer to Orlando than Los Angeles, then have Worlds in Orlando 2/3 of the time.

3. It is more interesting for athletes/spectators to go to different places occasionally. After a few years in a row, even DisneyWorld gets old.

4. Hotels/Parks/Arena closer together. Transportation isn't provided for as well in Anaheim as it is in Orlando. However, that is because there isn't a NEED to provide that type of transportation. Everything is right there. The hotels are essentially across the street from the convention center and from Disney. In the same amount of time it takes you to walk to your bus stop in Orlando, you could have already walked to the convention center (or park) from your hotel in Anaheim.

5. The park-hopper/theme park expense would be much more manageable. You wouldn't have to go through Disney property to get to the competition. If you were on a tight budget, you wouldn't even have to set foot in the Disney complex. This could save several hundred dollars per athlete - if you wanted.

this is so true!!

but let me just clear this up.. im not saying that worlds NEEDS to come to CALI. ANYWHERE TX, UTAH, FL, NY, i think it would be great..

and still think they should be held at like football stadiums!!!!! haha!


EAST COAST has the biggest competitions and Cali teams are shelding out money to go out and compete out there i dont see why having bigger comps out in california would be a bad thing the only way comps grow is by having them PERIOD. so start having bigger competitions out in california.

of course alot of people are going to disagree because yes its true the east coast has the most cheerleaders/gyms then the west coast and wouldnt enjoy paying the money that the west coast teams pay to fly out & hotel and other expenses.

 

[NJ Coach]

I love this thread. So many great ideas.

As for Small gym divisions. I hate them. I feel they are a cop out and a place teams go to hide. It's an easy way to a win/jacket. There are those that love that division, but I'm from a small gym. I have no doubt that my girls can compete with anyone, regardless of the size of their gym.

Worlds should definitely be rotated. I'm sure USASF has some contract with Disney, securing the Milk House for the next million years, but it should definitely be looked into. East, Central, West locations on a rotating basis is fair for everyone.

Universal/Standardized scoring. I like the JamBrands rubric and the Varsity scoresheet. Combine them and I'd happy Of course I don't foresee those two companies coming together for something like that, but it's probably the only way it would work.

Judging. Judges should need to be hired through USASF. They should be educated and trained through a central, unbiased company. Have a judging oversight committee.

 

[Carrie]

Great thread!

Can we please get a bottom age on Sr level teams. Maybe 11 or 12 for the bottom end. I know this topic has been beaten to death but you did say crazy!

 

[BlueCat]

I really do get that the East teams don't want to have to pay the kind of money currently being paid by the West teams to travel. (It's pretty much the same difference to the Texas teams.) However, I think that the cost savings in potentially avoiding DisneyWorld would MORE than make up the difference in flight costs.

Brings me to:

#14 - USASF should REQUIRE membership of all athletes competing at USASF-sactioned events

The VAST majority of the USASF budget comes from Worlds. This is not a secret. Like any organization, the USASF needs this revenue to function and do the business it is charged with doing. However, the current model puts the burden of supporting the entire USASF financially solely on the backs of the Worlds-bound teams. People often (fairly, in some cases) accuse the USASF of focusing much of its energy on the L5 teams and Worlds. However, the flip side is that those very athletes are essentially paying all of the "cheer taxes" to make the USASF work. Currently, Worlds HAS to have a very high net revenue for there to even BE a USASF.

I would propose that it become mandatory for every competition to require USASF membership for ALL athletes at ALL the levels. (possible exception - Special Needs.) This would spread out the burden of supporting the USASF more fairly among all parts of the industry and alleviate some the pressure to make Worlds massively profitable. You would then be freed up to either lower the costs of Worlds a bit OR spend more money to make it an even better experience.

 

[BlueCat]

Reminder: These are not necessarily things I would automatically implement if I had the opportunity. Some of them I may not necessarily even agree with. I just think they are topics/ideas worthy of discussion. There are several very knowledgeable people here and I think this makes for an interesting "focus group" type discussion. There are plenty of "who are you absolutely certain is going to win Worlds" discussions if this isn't your thing.

 

[Deleted member 15]

Putting all of BlueCat's ideas into 1 list:

1. No more "small gym" or "large gym" divisions. Let gyms declare before the season whether they are Division I or Division II. (roughly like NCAA). This is based on your OWN assessment of your experience/talent level. ALL your teams have to compete in that "division" or category for that season - no switching around competition to competition. ONLY Division I programs are eligible for Worlds. If there are enough teams in a competition division, the event producer splits the teams into D1 and D2.

2. Standardized scoresheet/score system While you are at it, make scores more closely reflect what the athletes want to work on and what the audience wants to see. Option: Let each event producer put their own "multiplier" in front of each category score to "weight" them however they feel is appropriate.

3. Event producers MUST share ALL scores from ALL teams. We want to know why Team A beat Team B so we can all make our routines better. Let the teams keep their own judge comments, but we should be able to see the actual scores.

4. Event producers should only have 1 "Nationals" per year. (multi-brand type events not included.)

5. Fewer divisions at Worlds. If there aren't 15 D1 teams registered nationally in any division, it gets combined with it's closest match. (Example: only 11 Large Seniors around this year? - throw 'em in with the smalls.)

6. Deductions are proportional to the number of skills being thrown. If you only put up 5 stunts, dropping 1 should penalize you even more than if you drop 2 out of 11 (do the math.)

7. Fewer, but larger events. Event producers would even be on board with this. Good luck coming up with a way to make that work, though.

8. Worlds rotates between Cali and Fl. (or even more locations.) Why should the same teams have to travel further each season?

9. Split Dance Worlds and Cheer Worlds into separate events Many people want to do both - why not let them? Different weekends.

10. 2 L5 coed divisions: Limited Coed 1-6 males. Coed 7-15 males. That is right. Limiting the max number of males on any 1 team will, in the long run, increase the # of total males competing in the sport overall (insert long dissertation on the economics of large coed teams here . . .)

11. Move Worlds out of Milk House. That venue is NOT up to the standards of the event itself. Even the Orange County Convention Center down the street would be a marked improvement venue-wise. (The Anaheim Convention Center across the street from Disneyland would be perfect, by the way.) We either need dramatically fewer teams or a bigger, better venue (or both).

12 Sport-wide adoption of the CheerSport marking system. The horizontal lines make formations easier & routines safer. The clean programs (sorry Stingrays) will cry foul, thinking it diminishes a competitive advantage, but it just makes too much sense. Don't worry, Orange will still be cleaner than everyone else.

13 Have "unofficial" results available before awards ceremonies.
I may lose a lot of people on this one, but hear me out. It is incredibly difficult to learn you are in 2nd place at Worlds (or whatever place at whatever event) under the microscope of everyone staring at your team the very moment you find out. Any wrong gesture or expression immediately gets immediately taken as poor sportsmanship. It is much easier on the athlete to learn their scores elsewhere and compose themselves before the awards ceremonies. I hate the "well they should have been happy to be 2nd, I know I would" argument thrown about. Under the current system, the very moment your name is called out is NOT usually pleasant. (If there are only 2 teams left, it is typically a let-down to THEN hear that you are 2nd out of those 2.)

14 - USASF should REQUIRE membership of all athletes competing at USASF-sactioned events

.

 

[NJ Coach]

I'd like to see execution and difficutly be worth the same. If difficulty is scored out of a 10, I'd like to see execution be worth a 10. I think one is as important as the other.

 

[King]

I actually think getting away from the Disney is the best thing allstar cheerleading could do. It raises the cost dramatically for a theme park that is based for ages a bit lower than the ages that compete at Worlds. If we wanted to chose cheap airports that are easy to fly into then it should be in Atlanta. But I am not a huge fan of the facilities people use for competitions in Atlanta.

The ideal situation is a city with plenty of hotels, easy to get around, plenty of attractions so people have things to do, and a good facility to compete at that is cheap!