All-Star Crossovers: Good, Or Bad?

[cheer25mom]

I know we have this discussion a lot. Most people say the same thing.. As I'm about to lol
There are some benefits but I'm not a fan at all!

Outside of kids being on multiple teams that they sometimes shouldn't be on I get annoyed when one team in my CPs division gets moved really early or really late from the rest of the division. I don't feel we should cater to those crossovers. If your kid can't warm up with the second team they can't warm up. These insane changes bother me.

Two seasons ago we had two rostered crossovers all season long one (y2/j2 and the other j3/s3) the coaches hated it!

They did not do it at all last season except for dance teams... Pretty much the 3 dance teams consisted of 90% cheerleaders. NCA was a nightmare. The kids that danced on my cp's team I was thankful that there dance performance was scheduled after because I don't want the team my kid is on to be their second performance. Those kids were high stressed. A lot of our s3 who got 2nd by .05 was rushed because they competed sr hip hop, ran to the other end to do some of s3 warm up, while still in their dance clothes. Had like 20 mins after warm ups to change into cheer uniform and cheer hair, poof and high pony, and cheer makeup. You cannot tell me that wasn't the most stressful hour of their life! Lol
I'm sure that was not their best cheer performance.

This year they decided that no cheerleaders can do dance so we just lost all dance teams but one. They refuse to crossover unless injury and I'm so thankful for that. For us it wouldn't work outside of level because every team does NCA so that helps. Thankfully.

Maybe if my kid crossed over my opinion would change as I'm sure people that have the option and those who do it see the benefits so I'm not doubting there is some benefits. I just don't prefer it!


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I totally get where you are coming from, but just wanted to mention that in the dance world, 20 min to change hair and clothes is an eternity. CP dances at a studio as well as doing cheer, and I change her an average of 7 times a show. The quickest change was 2 numbers, so 5min to change tights, costume, and hair. She had 7 high intensity numbers that ran 2:30 and had to tumble in the 6th one which was well into hour 3 of the show. If these girls dance at all, they should be used to it. I don't think whole teams should be made out of crossovers, and I definitely don't think gyms should be stacking teams with higher level athletes, but I don't think that the quick changes effect performance in a child that is used to doing it and knows going in that this is the way it will be.



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[XtremeWpg]

We're going to have several cross overs from our IOC6 team to our IOC4 team. Why?
1- A lot of the guys on 6 haven't ever really gotten a ton of experience with the basics. They can do them, but making them more and more solid will increase their level 6 stunting ability
2- A bunch of them just love cheer and would do it every day for 5 hours if they could
3- Level 4 to level 6 are *completely* different skill sets. The guys will be thirding a lot on 4. The baskets are different.
4- Most of our Level 6 don't have level 6 tumbling beyond jumps to tuck. Most are working tucks and layouts in running passes. Completing them at level 4 is actually where they're at tumbling wise.
5- Our level 4 team is going to be a lot more rec than level 6. 6 is going for a bid and all that jazz. 4 will be a place with less pressure and more fun. The athletes want that balance.

Thats why it works for us. We're also talking about adults in this situation. And given the difference in level 6 skills to level 4, I don't consider it sandbagging for these athletes. I've always said, anyone can stack people 2.5 high. It takes a different skill set to do assisted tucks, high to highs etc.

 

[cupieqt]

@FierceIsTheName You bring up a topic that really hits a nerve with me this year. Last year I allowed a coach that I had groomed for over 5 years to have more input into how we set up our teams. Before, I required that kids be placed on their strongest level and no one crosses unless it is an absolute necessity and then, only to same level teams.
But she pushed me hard to have ALL kids willing to cross do so AND to put them on their age and level appropriate team and then also a higher level team in order to push them to grow.

Can I tell you what a disaster this was for me? On the outside it did look great. We had lots of teams (heck we practically doubled the size of our gym just by crossing over) and we had some happy suzies and suzies parents.

But behind the scenes was a nightmare. First, this coach, that I had raised and taught and encouraged and loved, abruptly peaced out on me right before our annual showcase. She said she needed to make more money but I later realized she saw what a mistake she had made in her judgements about how it would go (specifically she had a J3 that had too many level 2 kids on it and they were seriously struggling). I KNEW it would be a lot more work and that some teams would struggle, and I told her this, but I believed in her and told her I trusted her to help with this new vision for our program. My mistake.

Scheduling team practices was a nightmare. No one was happy with their practice days or times. Ever. Competing was a nightmare. We had crossover issues with the first, second, third and fourth comp schedules and eventually just got used to knowing someone would always be missing from awards/warm ups/etc.. At awards it was embarrassing to me to have so many of the same kids stand up for one team then get right back up later on for another. It was just all too much.

And then this year rolled around. And guess who wasn't happy with things going back to the way we used to do it? Poor Suzie not being crossed to a higher age/level team was just too upset. And I didn't realize how many Suzies I actually had until they saw that their little punkin was going to be basing on a youth 2 instead of flying on a J1. Horrors!

So I lost a lot of people this year due to all the messiness of last year. All because we crossed way too many dang kids. Lesson learned.

 

[311cheermom]

I'd say at least 70% of the kids at our relatively small gym are on 2 teams, including my cp. Pretty much only the youth and tiny's aren't. It seems to be the same way at the other gyms that are close by, even mega gym around the corner from us. Cp's life is owned by cheer for now. She doesn't want it any other way, but I do wonder how long she will feel that way. And I wonder if being on two teams will contribute to earlier burnout and/or injuries. We made it through last year ok, so hopefully this year will work out as well.

 

[TheVipersMom]

I totally get where you are coming from, but just wanted to mention that in the dance world, 20 min to change hair and clothes is an eternity. CP dances at a studio as well as doing cheer, and I change her an average of 7 times a show. The quickest change was 2 numbers, so 5min to change tights, costume, and hair. She had 7 high intensity numbers that ran 2:30 and had to tumble in the 6th one which was well into hour 3 of the show. If these girls dance at all, they should be used to it. I don't think whole teams should be made out of crossovers, and I definitely don't think gyms should be stacking teams with higher level athletes, but I don't think that the quick changes effect performance in a child that is used to doing it and knows going in that this is the way it will be.



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Lol well ours went from dance to cheer and warm ups and keep in mind NDA for NCA is like the furthest away from the hall the had the A division in small senior 3 which was in the 2nd to last hall on the other side.

Their hair for dance is completely different and since we do cheer they had to convert to cheer hair. Poof high pony and teased curls. Then do the make up. So perform dance, run to the other side jump in in the middle of warmups for cheer wearing your dance clothes and big shoes, then run out of warms ups down to another place to get changed and then meet your team
backstage while battling the million people in your way at NCA can not be easy. I think had it all be centralized where warmups and the stages were but trust they were like the furthest away from each other. NDA is past the arena outside and then you go into another building lol.


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[Velchs]

I wonder if limiting/increasing the amount of crossovers according to size of gym would eliminate the problems?

I think most people agree that crossovers are necessary at smaller gyms, and that they're okay at big gyms in moderation.

So what if the legal number of crossovers stayed the same at small gyms and was decreased at bigger gyms? I feel like that would make it so small gyms got the help they needed while eliminating sandbagging and other issues from big gyms.

Disclaimer: It's 3 a.m. and this might not make any sense lol


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It makes sense. Maybe instead of large and small they could do a chart saying from x amount of athletes to y amt of athletes you get z amt of crossovers. Possibly doing it by intervals and the more amounts of athletes you have you less you get. But then they have decided which athletes are counted and which aren't. I think when counting for numbers of athletes usually you don't count prep, special needs, exhibitions and some others

 

[Keep_Believing]

Unless you have an athlete that competes on more than three teams in a single competition, using crossovers is not actually "cheating." You may consider the current rules unfair, but playing by those rules is not cheating. Just have to throw that out there.


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NCA Nationals has limits and guidelines for crossovers.

1. DIVISIONS AND CROSSOVERS
   
   Unlimited Crossovers will continue to be allowed at all NCA events with the exception of NCA All-Star Nationals. Crossovers at NCA ALL-STAR NATIONALS WILL BE ALLOWED given the following restrictions:
   1. Participant may only crossover into a division within the same USASF Level (ex: Level 3 Jr Coed and Level 3 Small Senior).
   2. Participant may only represent up to a maximum of two teams.
   
   3. Participant may only represent on gym.
   4. A maximum of five crossover participants is allowed per team.
   5. Crossover participants must pay an additional commuter registration fee in full to perfrom on the second team.
   
   NCA always attempts to ensure teams from the same program do not have overlapping performances during the preliminary schedule. However, NCA cannot guarantee that a performance overlap will not occur during the final schedule. If a team violates the crossover rule, the second and each subsequent team will receive a 10.0 deduction off of their final score for each illegal participant. Maximum penalty is 20.0.

 

[megsmom]

I'm going to be in the minority here, but here is my 2 cents...

CP has crossed for the past 4 years. Her first team is always her age/level appropriate team. Her second team is her 'push team'. She is there to learn from the older, more experienced girls. Then, when she is the older girl, she knows how to lead the younger girls. I also fell like I get my money's worth when I pay $15-25 to get into a competition for 5 minutes of routine instead of just 2.5.

At our gym, we pay tuition for the higher level team and a $20 crossover fee per month. So I get an additional 2 hours of practice and 1 hour of tumble for $20- better than the cost of a private. We also pay a $150 competition crossover fee in March.


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[Itsmydaughterssport]

NCA Nationals has limits and guidelines for crossovers.

1. DIVISIONS AND CROSSOVERS
   
   Unlimited Crossovers will natinal comp does the crossover rule apy?
2. continue to be allowed at all NCA events with the exception of NCA All-Star Nationals. Crossovers at NCA ALL-STAR NATIONALS WILL BE ALLOWED given the following restrictions:
   1. Participant may only crossover into a division within the same USASF Level (ex: Level 3 Jr Coed and Level 3 Small Senior).
   2. Participant may only represent up to a maximum of two teams.
   
   3. Participant may only represent on gym.
   4. A maximum of five crossover participants is allowed per team.
   5. Crossover participants must pay an additional commuter registration fee in full to perfrom on the second team.
   
   NCA always attempts to ensure teams from the same program do not have overlapping performances during the preliminary schedule. However, NCA cannot guarantee that a performance overlap will not occur during the final schedule. If a team violates the crossover rule, the second and each subsequent team will receive a 10.0 deduction off of their final score for each illegal participant. Maximum penalty is 20.0.

If someone is on a level 2 and level 4 team and only the level 4 team attends the NCA

 

[CheerBank]

If someone is on a level 2 and level 4 team and only the level 4 team attends the NCA

If you are asking if that's allowed, the answer is yes.


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[seein_starz]

I've been a crossover these past 2 seasons (both jr3 and sr4) and I think it's a bad idea. There's so much stress put on crossovers when they are practicing with their lower level team because they expect you to be head and shoulders above the rest of the team, I was missing an hour of practicing with my level 3 team this year because both teams practiced at the same time on Wednesdays (3 was 5-7, 4 was 4-6) and I constantly had competition time problems (one comp literally conpeted back to back and should've just stayed on the floor) and it's so much pressure and stress to do equally well on both teams.


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[Madeleine Angerdina]

Crossovers could be a good thing. I know a 10 year old girl with level 4 skills so she was put on a senior 4 team. the problem is all her friends are on a youth 1 team so she decided to be on both teams so that she could be with her friends.

 

[sarahh_cheers]

i love being a cross over! i think its a good idea.

 

[cheerKT]

Crossovers could be a good thing. I know a 10 year old girl with level 4 skills so she was put on a senior 4 team. the problem is all her friends are on a youth 1 team so she decided to be on both teams so that she could be with her friends.

This is the kind of crossing over that people have a problem with. A clear level 4 cheerleader crossing down to a level 1 could probably be considered sandbagging.

 

[dawgshow]

This is the kind of crossing over that people have a problem with. A clear level 4 cheerleader crossing down to a level 1 could probably be considered sandbagging.

There's no could probably about it.