"Deductions" for missed Skills

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Rudags

Two Time Defending Champion, Board Comedian
Dec 14, 2009
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Whats everyones thoughts on there being a "deduction" (for lack of better word) for missed skills. For example - You have a team who has a two to full section in their routine but the back row does two to layouts. The people who throw layouts would cause a "deduction" for the team. I am on the fence about it, but hoping it can bring up a great debate. Here is what I have came up with so far:

Cons:
1. Applying it to other levels (esp. Level 1 or 2). If a team does squad backbend kickovers or squad BHS's - Level 1's and Level 2's are normally a gyms beginner levels and often those teams lack the basics - and if not - they normally lack squad tumbling. I mean how many Level 1s and 2s have SQUAD anything? In my experience, very few.

2. Smaller gyms sometimes have to just make the best of low numbers (and some big gyms as well) so sometimes kids that dont tumble are put on Senior 3 and 4 teams due to theor stunting ability

3. Less flexability for last minute changes (sick, hurt, quit, etc) I know standing fulls for example - We might choreograph them in, but someone may get hurt and the sub cant do it - So having that sub would hurt the routine.

Pros:
1. I feel it would challenge the kids more to push for skills. I know some kids dont try has hard because they know the two to layout they throw with the fulls is hidden. If they knew it would be a deduction, they may work harder.

2. Nothing to hide in routines. People throwing skills truely have the skill and will leave less up to the imagination.


I dont know what really sparked my interest in the matter - Some friends and I were just talking and one of them said they heard this was brought up at some meeting. What do yall think?
 
I'm OK with deducting for obvious missed skills, like the last pass of a level 5 routine ending in a back handspring rebound. I'm not in favor of deductions for the back row hiding or doing something else, but it should factor into the quantity/difficulty score.
 
To be a level 5 team with the front row throwing 2 to fulls and the back row throwing 2 to layouts, or tucks even, isn't a missed skill. A rebound, yes that is a missed skill and some sort of deduction should be there but not for throwing a below-level skill. 5 stunt groups with 4 1.5 ups and 1 regular full up shouldn't be considered a missed skill, but 5 stunt groups with 1 1.5 ups and 1 straight up would be a missed skill.
 
I've been wanting deductions for coed 6 for years if a spot touches the stunt. How many teams can you name that don't touch the stunt for elite stunt sections?

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To be a level 5 team with the front row throwing 2 to fulls and the back row throwing 2 to layouts, or tucks even, isn't a missed skill. A rebound, yes that is a missed skill and some sort of deduction should be there but not for throwing a below-level skill. 5 stunt groups with 4 1.5 ups and 1 regular full up shouldn't be considered a missed skill, but 5 stunt groups with 1 1.5 ups and 1 straight up would be a missed skill.

I dont agree with that esp if you have to throw in an alternate at the last minute
 
Cheersport had a category for "omission" this past year. I completely agree with taking off points for an athlete that obviously missed a pass.

What do you think about athletes that "mark" a pass, say BHS, or even tuck in a team skill section? Should teams be deducted for this? My opinion is that if you are going to have a team skill section, and you have an athlete or two that cannot do it, choreo them out of the section...you're still maxing points, and you don't have to worry about omissions...
 
I've been wanting deductions for coed 6 for years if a spot touches the stunt. How many teams can you name that don't touch the stunt for elite stunt sections?

King - I completely agree. I would also like that applied to college nationals as well.
 
Whats everyones thoughts on there being a "deduction" (for lack of better word) for missed skills. For example - You have a team who has a two to full section in their routine but the back row does two to layouts. The people who throw layouts would cause a "deduction" for the team. I am on the fence about it, but hoping it can bring up a great debate. Here is what I have came up with so far:

Cons:
1. Applying it to other levels (esp. Level 1 or 2). If a team does squad backbend kickovers or squad BHS's - Level 1's and Level 2's are normally a gyms beginner levels and often those teams lack the basics - and if not - they normally lack squad tumbling. I mean how many Level 1s and 2s have SQUAD anything? In my experience, very few.

2. Smaller gyms sometimes have to just make the best of low numbers (and some big gyms as well) so sometimes kids that dont tumble are put on Senior 3 and 4 teams due to theor stunting ability

3. Less flexability for last minute changes (sick, hurt, quit, etc) I know standing fulls for example - We might choreograph them in, but someone may get hurt and the sub cant do it - So having that sub would hurt the routine.

Pros:
1. I feel it would challenge the kids more to push for skills. I know some kids dont try has hard because they know the two to layout they throw with the fulls is hidden. If they knew it would be a deduction, they may work harder.

2. Nothing to hide in routines. People throwing skills truely have the skill and will leave less up to the imagination.


I dont know what really sparked my interest in the matter - Some friends and I were just talking and one of them said they heard this was brought up at some meeting. What do yall think?

I don't like the idea of penalizing you for involving less skilled athletes in the routine. Its one thing for it to not help your score, but its another thing for it to actually hurt your score.

but on the other side, if you have 5 people doing round off tucks in a line and the person in the middle only does a round off rebound, there is an obvious mistake there rather than using a choreography to allow lesser skilled athletes to still do their skills in a routine while highlighting the more skilled team members
 
King - I completely agree. I would also like that applied to college nationals as well.

YES! It is what impressed me about OSU this past year. They completely did their stunts on their own.
 
do they even get deducted for that stuff? Our L5 team have quite a few team members doing layouts in a 2 to full sections the last 2 years and we havent been deducted... but missed skills yes i kinda agree with that but like what about world cup shooting stars? They had one girl not finish her pass i think this year and last year, but i dont think she ever got deducted for it... but idk...
 
do they even get deducted for that stuff? Our L5 team have quite a few team members doing layouts in a 2 to full sections the last 2 years and we havent been deducted... but missed skills yes i kinda agree with that but like what about world cup shooting stars? They had one girl not finish her pass i think this year and last year, but i dont think she ever got deducted for it... but idk...

You arent deducted for throwing a layout instead of a full in Level 5. Its just a hypothetical question to promote discussion.
 
Idk if there is a way to deduct it. Maybe just finding a way to reward only for the truly thrown skills?

In other words you must have a majority doing actual skills to be in the right rubric?

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Idk if there is a way to deduct it. Maybe just finding a way to reward only for the truly thrown skills?

In other words you must have a majority doing actual skills to be in the right rubric?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Isn't that how it is supposed to be on the varsity scoresheet anyways?
 
In theory. But its hard without instant replay to really gauge it. Im not saying there should be instant replay, but trickery never really hurts any team atm.

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In theory. But its hard without instant replay to really gauge it. Im not saying there should be instant replay, but trickery never really hurts any team atm.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Sounds like a great discussion. Arent there a couple companies that do this?
 
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