All-Star Discriminatory Law In Indiana

[Miialovescheer]

Back in Australia, over 75% of citizens believe in same-sex marriage, and it's a similar statistic for same-sex couple adoption rights. The law just hasn't caught up to us yet.

When one state legalized gay marriage, our extremely conservative (and mostly widely hated) federal government got the decision overturned, and all those marriages were nullified. My heart breaks for those people who were suddenly told that, even though they were legally married in front of family and friends, their country wouldn't recognize them.

Yeah i feel bad for them as well but you will get the law soon.

 

[catlady]

Seems the "no" was accepted, then....

As a Christian, this is what I have a hard time understanding in her theory. She provided them flowers in many other cases, however, she said she couldn't participate in their wedding. Perhaps it is the "participate" I'm struggling with. They weren't asking her as a guest, or to walk them down the aisle, to be a witness, perform, etc. They were merely asking her for the same service they had asked her for in the past and she had no problem providing them. For ministers, they are actually being asked to "participate" and IMO should have the right to decline under religious freedom. Here's what I think is the truth, she has no problem providing a service when her name and identity can be hidden but, when her floral truck (or her) can be seen, she is afraid she will face judgment from her Christian friends, not Christ.

For my fellow Christians that want to deny people business, read Revelation 13:16, 17 and then ask yourself, "How many times have you seen (or heard) those things people fight for ultimately used against them?"

 

[SL&AM]

Here's what I think is the truth, she has no problem providing a service when her name and identity can be hidden but, when her floral truck (or her) can be seen, she is afraid she will face judgment from her Christian friends, not Christ.

I wouldn't disagree with that assumption.

 

[ScottyB]

So why do we need laws for it? Have we really gotten to a point in society where a simple no can't just be accepted? This is personal businesses' we're talking about and I have a feeling that pizza place will be out of business down the road like the florist was.

Remember the civil rights movement?
Those business owners were just saying no to black customers because they didn't want to serve people of color and because they claimed it was against their religion. This law protects business owners just like that. If a business is open to the public then they must be willing to serve the public granted they are clothed, not being outrageous in their actions and behavior, and are sanitary enough for the business environment.

Hopefully the law gets amended to not be so outrageous and Indiana won't go down on the wrong side of history like so many people did 60+ years ago

 

[SL&AM]

Remember the civil rights movement?
Those business owners were just saying no to black customers because they didn't want to serve people of color and because they claimed it was against their religion. This law protects business owners just like that. If a business is open to the public then they must be willing to serve the public granted they are clothed, not being outrageous in their actions and behavior, and are sanitary enough for the business environment.

Hopefully the law gets amended to not be so outrageous and Indiana won't go down on the wrong side of history like so many people did 60+ years ago

No I absolutely remember the Civil Rights Movement; I was moreso venting about the fact that we even need these laws and how we could have evolved beyond this and haven't.

 

[ScottyB]

No I absolutely remember the Civil Rights Movement; I was moreso venting about the fact that we even need these laws and how we could have evolved beyond this and haven't.

Yea it is crazy that we are repeating history just with a different group of people.
Yet our government keeps cutting education...

 

[kristenthegreat]

As a Christian, this is what I have a hard time understanding in her theory. She provided them flowers in many other cases, however, she said she couldn't participate in their wedding. Perhaps it is the "participate" I'm struggling with. They weren't asking her as a guest, or to walk them down the aisle, to be a witness, perform, etc. They were merely asking her for the same service they had asked her for in the past and she had no problem providing them. For ministers, they are actually being asked to "participate" and IMO should have the right to decline under religious freedom. Here's what I think is the truth, she has no problem providing a service when her name and identity can be hidden but, when her floral truck (or her) can be seen, she is afraid she will face judgment from her Christian friends, not Christ.

For my fellow Christians that want to deny people business, read Revelation 13:16, 17 and then ask yourself, "How many times have you seen (or heard) those things people fight for ultimately used against them?"

I think that's what gets me too. If you disapprove of the lifestyle so much, and you disapprove of marriage so much, why did ever make them anything? Do you feel this strongly about ALL the things like that in the Bible (maybe she does, but in my experience, no)?

The only thing you're participating in is the art of creation. It's why we haven't sued gun manufacturers ever time somebody gets shot.

 

[AngelsMum24]

Has anyone heard of this law?

Yes and do you realize 30 other states have similar legistlature?

 

[CharlotteASMom]

Been mostly holding back and reading this thread. About everything I could say has been said except I wanted to add - if anyone thinks the anti-gay part of this was just a mistake or unintentional part of the law, they should do some extra research. Some of the lobbyist behind this have a very strong anti-gay stance and Pence himself has said some pretty horrible stuff (most of which he has attempted to delete in social media).

NC is right on the heels (no pun intended) of passing similar legislation. We've actually been told it's worst than Indiana. I've not been very proud to be a North Carolinian over the past few years but we will keep fighting here. Hope everyone else does as well.

 

[gymcatmomx2]

As a Christian, this is what I have a hard time understanding in her theory. She provided them flowers in many other cases, however, she said she couldn't participate in their wedding. Perhaps it is the "participate" I'm struggling with. They weren't asking her as a guest, or to walk them down the aisle, to be a witness, perform, etc. They were merely asking her for the same service they had asked her for in the past and she had no problem providing them. For ministers, they are actually being asked to "participate" and IMO should have the right to decline under religious freedom. Here's what I think is the truth, she has no problem providing a service when her name and identity can be hidden but, when her floral truck (or her) can be seen, she is afraid she will face judgment from her Christian friends, not Christ.

For my fellow Christians that want to deny people business, read Revelation 13:16, 17 and then ask yourself, "How many times have you seen (or heard) those things people fight for ultimately used against them?"

This hit the nail on the head for me. Great post! You are so correct about this business owner not having an issue prior to their wedding, but then at that point her Christianity "kicked in" and BOOM, we now have a problem. That last time I checked, marriage was a civil union. I am not sure if this owner has an issue with where the wedding was taking place, whether it was in a church or in a garden; whether the individual officiating the wedding was a justice of the peace or a member of the clergy.

 

[SL&AM]

Yes and do you realize 30 other states have similar legistlature?

Pretty sure it's closer to 19 and as it's been pointed out a few times in this thread already, those states also have laws that limit it's power. The Governor of Indiana has already come out and said he would not pass a law that would ban people from discriminating against people based on sexuality; a law those other states have.

 

[SL&AM]

This hit the nail on the head for me. Great post! You are so correct about this business owner not having an issue prior to their wedding, but then at that point her Christianity "kicked in" and BOOM, we now have a problem. That last time I checked, marriage was a civil union. I am not sure if this owner has an issue with where the wedding was taking place, whether it was in a church or in a garden; whether the individual officiating the wedding was a justice of the peace or a member of the clergy.

This is so often forgotten and overlooked. Marriage, as a thing, was founded long before Christianity as a religion was if you look back at World History.

 

[ScottyB]

Been mostly holding back and reading this thread. About everything I could say has been said except I wanted to add - if anyone thinks the anti-gay part of this was just a mistake or unintentional part of the law, they should do some extra research. Some of the lobbyist behind this have a very strong anti-gay stance and Pence himself has said some pretty horrible stuff (most of which he has attempted to delete in social media).

NC is right on the heels (no pun intended) of passing similar legislation. We've actually been told it's worst than Indiana. I've not been very proud to be a North Carolinian over the past few years but we will keep fighting here. Hope everyone else does as well.

I read today that Indiana's Government in the 1920s was basically run by the KKK, so I feel like they have always had acceptance issues.

 

[FamousxMindset]

The irony is astounding.

 

[kristenthegreat]

Was it Oklahoma who was trying to make it a law that only Religous People can have marriages and everyone else had to deal?

Marriage, at its base, has been about LONG before Christianity or even Judaism has been around (because, you know, Judaism pre-dates Christianity by a good chunk of change). I don't know where these Ultra Religious People get on about this, but it's a business transaction at heart that's been occurring LONG before any deity got involved. Personally, I'd like to think I'm worth MORE than 10 camels, but I don't know the going market rate.

Also, stole this fun little tidbit from Wikipedia (yes yes, I know. But their page on Marriage is a staggering trove of info).

Christian marriages are based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul. Today many Christian denominations regard marriage as a sacrament, a sacred institution, or a covenant, but this wasn't the case before marriage was officially recognized as a sacrament at the 1184 Council of Verona. Before then, no specific ritual was prescribed for celebrating a marriage: "Marriage vows did not have to be exchanged in a church, nor was a priest's presence required. A couple could exchange consent anywhere, anytime."