All-Star Double Edge Sword

[aggie1983]

I am at a bit of a loss as to why PracticePerfect's initial post generated such defensiveness and sarcasm. It wasn't attacking the big gyms, or at least I certainly didn't take it that way. (Yes, there is the line about creating a monster, but look at the whole post and place it in context and I think you see my point.) In fact the post clearly states admiration for what big gyms have accomplished. But there is no denying that a few gyms dominate the topics of this board. For the most part I don't care, I have learned a lot about gyms I had never heard of before and other gyms that I had certainly heard of but didn't know that much about. It has been fascinating in many ways coming from a small gym that just can't relate to that kind of exposure. But I do get tired of the thought often expressed (including here) that many think the main purpose of a small gym is to develop athletes and be a "feeder" for the big guys. There are very talented athletes at small gyms that choose to stay there because it is "home" and for whom winning isn't the main thing. Is it great to win - Absolutely. But there are intangibles that believe it or not, some small gyms can offer that maybe the big gym's, by their very nature, can't. But I am not trying to make this a big gym vs small gym argument. I'm really more interested in reiterating that I think the initial post was worthy of generating discussion without the sarcasm.

 

[cheermomfootball]

I am at a bit of a loss as to why PracticePerfect's initial post generated such defensiveness and sarcasm. It wasn't attacking the big gyms, or at least I certainly didn't take it that way. (Yes, there is the line about creating a monster, but look at the whole post and place it in context and I think you see my point.) In fact the post clearly states admiration for what big gyms have accomplished. But there is no denying that a few gyms dominate the topics of this board. For the most part I don't care, I have learned a lot about gyms I had never heard of before and other gyms that I had certainly heard of but didn't know that much about. It has been fascinating in many ways coming from a small gym that just can't relate to that kind of exposure. But I do get tired of the thought often expressed (including here) that many think the main purpose of a small gym is to develop athletes and be a "feeder" for the big guys. There are very talented athletes at small gyms that choose to stay there because it is "home" and for whom winning isn't the main thing. Is it great to win - Absolutely. But there are intangibles that believe it or not, some small gyms can offer that maybe the big gym's, by their very nature, can't. But I am not trying to make this a big gym vs small gym argument. I'm really more interested in reiterating that I think the initial post was worthy of generating discussion without the sarcasm.

I agree. Why the sarcasm and hints that PracticePerfect was insinuating that the larger programs were not working hard, and not deserving of their wins...When my daughter started cheerleading at 8 years old, she was in a gym that did not even have a spring floor. They were small and home grown. To this day, they have grown because of being able to hold on to their talent and their 'cheer family'. Some of their coaches moved on and continued to be highly successful with other athletes at other gyms.

I disagree with the comment that if you dressed all teams in the same color with a star the same teams who win today would still win. The influence of the name in front of the judges carry weight, in my opinion. I did notice that some large programs did not enjoy wins in every division they participated in - funny, right? I was surprised they didn't, because perception is a huge part of how many view how results are derived [regardless of hard work - hard work does not always equate to a flawless performance]. So, could it be that the smaller programs have won in spite of not having a prominent name? It would be interesting to look at results and scores. Arguments can be valid on both sides of the coin. Great topic!

 

[CIAgiraffe]

WOW that sounds great! do you have a vid of that youth 2 team? i would love to see it! Good luck next season!

I don't have a day to video of them but one of the moms has a day 1 which they had a fall but still were in first. I so want a video though. And thanks.

 

[Justacoach]

Ok, so if the argument is that the "small name" gyms don't get enought recognition on this board - start some threads! Post some videos of those teams that are clean sharp and executing on-level skills and people will talk about it and start to recognize the small names

When TG SW started out 10 years ago in Naples, (this upcoming season is our 10th anniversary) the gym was not really recognized as Top Gun and many people did not even know that there was a second location. But with the proper training, dedicated families, and some fierce teams we have made a name for ourselves and i think most people recognize us as a strong program on our own - moreso in the state of FL.

 

[ztaprincess]

If teams all competed in the same uniform it wouldn't change much. The music still has their name in it and the fans that support that team are still going to be right there rooting for them. They win because they have the talent. There can always be the Cinderella story where the team no one thinks about comes up and shows everyone what it is all about. I like to think of the Woodlands prelim performance at worlds 09 as an example. Sure they are a gym that has been around for a while and they aren't completely noname, but how many thought they would come out in first after prelims to teams like Orange, CEA, and Cali? My guess is not many.

I don't think people are really getting defensive they are just stating their opinion. When people are passionate about a topic like this then their opinion will come off that way as well.

 

[socratesofcheer]

I disagree with the comment that if you dressed all teams in the same color with a star the same teams who win today would still win. The influence of the name in front of the judges carry weight, in my opinion. I did notice that some large programs did not enjoy wins in every division they participated in - funny, right? I was surprised they didn't, because perception is a huge part of how many view how results are derived [regardless of hard work - hard work does not always equate to a flawless performance]. So, could it be that the smaller programs have won in spite of not having a prominent name? It would be interesting to look at results and scores. Arguments can be valid on both sides of the coin. Great topic!

So, the "big programs" were predestined to become big because of the name on the uniform? If the name carries so much weight how did it get to that point?
And, because a gym is "big" doesn't mean that they win EVERY division EVERY time they compete. If they did then there might be a morsel of validity to your statement.

 

[King]

Fellow Fierce Boarders, you show your ignorance in cheerleading by saying the name on your chest is a benefit to larger gyms winning. The name on front of a uniform never:

Made CEA SE hit their tick tocks any better
Made Orange jump any better
Made CA Panthers tumble any better
Made TG have more flipping and flying boys than anyone
.... I really could make a giant list here.

And when that lower level team from Rays, CA, CEA, TG, Cali, T&S, SOT... 100's of other gyms I am forgetting and making mad because I am not mentioning which are definitely worthy of mentioning... wins a divisions in Mini 1, Youth 3, whatever! It is because the coaching that helped that gym create such a high Worlds caliber team might.. JUST MIGHT.. have been applied to that 6 year old and her team.(that was a giant run on)

 

[socratesofcheer]

Fellow Fierce Boarders, you show your ignorance in cheerleading by saying the name on your chest is a benefit to larger gyms winning. The name on front of a uniform never:

Made CEA SE hit their tick tocks any better
Made Orange jump any better
Made CA Panthers tumble any better
Made TG have more flipping and flying boys than anyone
.... I really could make a giant list here.

And when that lower level team from Rays, CA, CEA, TG, Cali, T&S, SOT... 100's of other gyms I am forgetting and making mad because I am not mentioning which are definitely worthy of mentioning... wins a divisions in Mini 1, Youth 3, whatever! It is because the coaching that helped that gym create such a high Worlds caliber team might.. JUST MIGHT.. have been applied to that 6 year old and her team.(that was a giant run on)

If you would have read the entire thread you would have never made a silly post like this one. Sheesh

 

[fabulousity]

1. "small gym" does not mean "new gym". in MD there are tons of small gyms that have been around for 10+ years and their programs have not really grown (in size or prestige). the nature of any business is that few flourish, some maintain and many fail.

2. wins=recognition, there's nothing else to compare on a national scale (so we can pretty much quit with the threads about the "nicest gym" and "sweetest athletes"). winning at small nationals that no one knows about will not get you recognition.

3. a smart program (big or small) worries about advancing themselves on a national level, not taking down a local competitor

 

[chyeeaaa69]

this is the most pointless discussion I have seen on Fierceboard since masculine males...

 

[SheCheers]

i don't have a strong opinion on this because i just don't care enough, i think the bottom line is free market, life isn't fair, you'll probably get the recognition you deserve, yadda yadda. but it has got me wondering...what is more impressive:

a gym with 26 teams bringing home 8 NCA (or insert fave comp here) national championships
or a gym with 4 teams bringing home 4 NCA championships?

there are so many different divisions, and in addition to talent, large gyms can have a team in a lot of those divisions, it's just common sense, their name gets heard and their uniforms get seen more, therefore they're going to be known. if they had 20 HORRIBLE (heh heh heh) teams, they'd be well known for being HORRIBLE. and on the flip side if a small gym has 4 awesome teams, it's going to take a lot longer before they're recognized for being awesome, just because their name is not repeated as much. i'm sure those small gyms are locally famous.

and seriously because i don't know, but i suspect....i also wonder is it more that the only championships that count towards recognition around here in the level 5 divisions? and to be "known" or recognized you really have to have a strong S5 team?

 

[cheermomfootball]

So, the "big programs" were predestined to become big because of the name on the uniform? If the name carries so much weight how did it get to that point?
And, because a gym is "big" doesn't mean that they win EVERY division EVERY time they compete. If they did then there might be a morsel of validity to your statement.

I appreciate your point of view. Getting to the point of being a big gym does not mean that the name should always carry weight.

Perception!

 

[ceahayley]

If you think about it big gyms aren't just born in a day, all big gyms started out as a small gym and had to work there way up to be a big name.

 

[cheermomfootball]

If you think about it big gyms aren't just born in a day, all big gyms started out as a small gym and had to work there way up to be a big name.

This is true for many. But, I know of a gym that was big from day one. How they did it would be interesting to know.

 

[socratesofcheer]

This is true for many. But, I know of a gym that was big from day one. How they did it would be interesting to know.

Who that is would be more interesting to know.