Ethical Gyms

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

I am just trying to figure out how we can get a hold of the elite gymnasts in our area to come tumble for our teams and let the other girls do the stunting. That seems fair right???

Has your kid been cheering long? You seem surprised by a lot of what we are discussing.

I'm not saying it is okay. Nor is it fun for the kids or parents. No one likes to see kids work hard in (example) Junior 2 to get beat by a Junior 2 that is clearly composed of Junior 4 and 5 kids.

As a gym, all they can do is put their best teams together and put the best routine on the floor.

As a parent, all YOU can do is focus on YOUR kid and ensure that she is happy, healthy, and loving the sport. Let the coaching staff concern themselves with teams, other kids, levels, etc.

 

[amy1k]

Actually, that would kill you on the score sheet, although I know what you are saying. Yes, you absolutely could do that.

Yes. I think this is mostly why our gym uses so many crossovers. Many kids came from gymnastics. Yes, they have level 5 tumbling. Stunting is much different and takes time to master. They do give those kids an opportunity to showcase their tumbling on higher, less competitive teams.

 

[CheerBank]

Has your kid been cheering long? You seem surprised by a lot of what we are discussing.

I'm not saying it is okay. Nor is it fun for the kids or parents. No one likes to see kids work hard in (example) Junior 2 to get beat by a Junior 2 that is clearly composed of Junior 4 and 5 kids.

As a gym, all they can do is put their best teams together and put the best routine on the floor.

As a parent, all YOU can do is focus on YOUR kid and ensure that she is happy, healthy, and loving the sport. Let the coaching staff concern themselves with teams, other kids, levels, etc.

I remember being surprised by all the crap that exists in cheer which I really did not understand until a few years in.

 

[Cheermom1969]

From what I have read, this scenario would never be feasible just due to their age alone.


I saw that a lot at Indy this weekend. Kind of crazy!!!!! Is that what they call Shady Athletics???

Yes, Shady Athletics. Seems they have more than one location too.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Yes, Shady Athletics. Seems they have more than one location too.

They're quite the mega gym. There is practically one in every ZIP code!

"Flipped that 5 to a 2 for NCA we up and done it (dip/set for double up)

Back up to a 3, mixing it up for Summit (hits stretch at top)]"

/voiceover.

 

[oncecoolcoachnowmom]

Teams:

Tiny 1 - OneDer If They Are Really 6?
Junior 2 - Sandbox (Of Kids from Senior 5)
Senior 3 - Deja Vu (Didn't I Just See That Kid at Worlds?)
Senior 5 - Delusional (You Definitely Did Not Just See Them In Senior 3 a Summit Photo. Even If You Think You Did.)

 

[dawgshow]

They're quite the mega gym. There is practically one in every ZIP code!

"Flipped that 5 to a 2 for NCA we up and done it (dip/set for double up)

Back up to a 3, mixing it up for Summit (hits stretch at top)]"

/voiceover.

CP loves that song still!

 

[cheermommaRN]

Even if you stack a team with Worlds athletes (ahem Sparks) they can still lose to a solid level team. NCA 2012 my cp's team in Large Jr 2 successfully beat a team that stacked their's with athletes from sm coed 5.
They had a technically maxed out routine and hit both days to win.
Next time maybe they'll use level 5 flyers...oh wait they went out of business. Eventually gyms that operate like that don't succeed.
Now "stacking" is much different then sandbagging. Stacking is just a side effect of having enough athletes of each level to be picky with who goes where (CA for example). That is why I'm glad we have small gym divisions and IEP's. Suzy's Allstars can be just as epic as Big Gym All Stars when they face gyms in their same boat.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Or you can just make up a team at, say, level 2 that is full of your level 3, 4 and 5 athletes and take them.

I know, I know, there's no way to keep a gym from doing that but it's still frustrating. :banghead:

While it is still very easy to get around, I'm glad NCA made the rule that you had to have competed at that level for like 2 competitions prior to Dallas. I like to think that it would help to eliminate some of the sandbagging teams that are created exclusively for NCA. I'm probably just being too naive though lol.

 

[shawtyyBHADDx3]

While it is still very easy to get around, I'm glad NCA made the rule that you had to have competed at that level for like 2 competitions prior to Dallas. I like to think that it would help to eliminate some of the sandbagging teams that are created exclusively for NCA. I'm probably just being too naive though lol.

I think it's only one comp. so even easier to do a one day before they head to NCA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cheer Dad]

And personally, that is why this sport suffers. How does that make sense? So, I can go pull a professional football player to play in college game if he is of age and meets college requirements?

If the NCAA allowed it then yes you could do just that.

We will be staying with the small gym, I like the integrity they show and they treat my child like part of a family. That is what is important to me and I want my child to know those values.

If this is what works for you then awesome. For what it is worth, bigger gyms can offer the same thing, you just need to find the right one

Yes, recruiting client is normal for a business to survive and there you hit it on the head. It is a business, Big Business. So, with that said our gym should go and try to "recruit" girls from the opposing gyms, middle schools, high schools, heck other teams at competition. Maybe we should even offer kids incentive like take money off of their tuition for leaving their gym and coming to ours (which is gym is currently doing). So, this business I assume you are talking about is winning because winning at whatever the cost is exactly what kids should be learning. That is exactly why we are raising a bunch of children with entitlement issues. I cannot wait for them to enter the workforce. When job A is no longer any fun then they will quit and go to job B, and then when they don't get their way quit job B and go to job C, and so on and so on. Also, my marriage is no longer interesting and hard so maybe I will just quit it also. This just seems like a slippery slope.

Yes, your gym could go recruit kids back but it can be a slippery slope for a small gym to offer financial incentive. Less money coming in means less profit and ultimately less services offered. As much as gyms promote a family feel it is a business. If not enough money coming in they will not survive.

Unethical recruiting practices include actively doing it at comps and during the cheer season. Which it sounds like the other gym is doing but was not in your original post. Kids are fair game after the season which is why gyms will often hold evaluations right after worlds, sometimes before, so they can lock up the kids.

For the business aspect, the business is not winning, that is a benefit of running a successful program. Knowing how to grow your athletes and advance them when they are ready. The business isn't family, if you want family and fairness for all do community recreation cheer where everything is dictated, even where you have to live to be in a certain program. You know, one of the Everybody gets a trophy program. That is the where entitlement comes from. You get a trophy for showing up, not for working your butt off and excelling.

What is wrong with leaving a job that no longer interests you? Nothing, especially if that job has nothing else to offer you whether it be financial, personal satisfaction or advancement. Relating this to cheer, WE are paying the gyms so if we as customers are not happy why should we stay? Gyms are not 1 size fits all. Bottom line is, and you know this, if your gym has a good product the kids will stay and even some of those who leave will be back.

I am politely declining the marriage advice. Might be for the best. [emoji15].

Btw, welcome to the boards. Lots of knowledge and opinions are available. Some are just better than others.


**Awwww isn't that cute, you have multiple user names and don't think we know**

 

[catlady]

While it is still very easy to get around, I'm glad NCA made the rule that you had to have competed at that level for like 2 competitions prior to Dallas. I like to think that it would help to eliminate some of the sandbagging teams that are created exclusively for NCA. I'm probably just being too naive though lol.

I think it definitely helps. I know of several teams that our kids have competed against throughout the years that can't take all of their teams to NCA but, have swept all other competitions. Now, whether they are Shady Athletics or Necessity Athletics could be debated but, I know of two small gyms that are phenomenal at levels 2, 3, 4.2, and 4 but, only take 1 or 2 teams to NCA.

IMO, there are a variety of comps out there for a reason. Yes, there are most definitely Shady Athletics out there BUT, with that said, our EP's and small gyms are well aware if all comps were to fall under NCA rules we would be cutting the legs out from under hundreds of small gym owners. With that said,
Dear mid to large gyms that abuse the rules made to accommodate the small gyms,
We all know who you are and we all at your banners.

 

[purplecheer]

I'm from a small gym and we NEED crossovers, otherwise one team will have 10 people and the other team will have 5. Crossing up or down a level is fine, but I don't like when level 5 crosses to level 2.

 

[Cheermom1969]

If the NCAA allowed it then yes you could do just that.



If this is what works for you then awesome. For what it is worth, bigger gyms can offer the same thing, you just need to find the right one



Yes, your gym could go recruit kids back but it can be a slippery slope for a small gym to offer financial incentive. Less money coming in means less profit and ultimately less services offered. As much as gyms promote a family feel it is a business. If not enough money coming in they will not survive.

Unethical recruiting practices include actively doing it at comps and during the cheer season. Which it sounds like the other gym is doing but was not in your original post. Kids are fair game after the season which is why gyms will often hold evaluations right after worlds, sometimes before, so they can lock up the kids.

For the business aspect, the business is not winning, that is a benefit of running a successful program. Knowing how to grow your athletes and advance them when they are ready. The business isn't family, if you want family and fairness for all do community recreation cheer where everything is dictated, even where you have to live to be in a certain program. You know, one of the Everybody gets a trophy program. That is the where entitlement comes from. You get a trophy for showing up, not for working your butt off and excelling.

What is wrong with leaving a job that no longer interests you? Nothing, especially if that job has nothing else to offer you whether it be financial, personal satisfaction or advancement. Relating this to cheer, WE are paying the gyms so if we as customers are not happy why should we stay? Gyms are not 1 size fits all. Bottom line is, and you know this, if your gym has a good product the kids will stay and even some of those who leave will be back.

I am politely declining the marriage advice. Might be for the best. [emoji15].

Btw, welcome to the boards. Lots of knowledge and opinions are available. Some are just better than others.


**Awwww isn't that cute, you have multiple user names and don't think we know**

I think you're wife needs a participation medal. Maybe even an MVP, one of those really tall ones.

 

[jasoncheerdad]

If the NCAA allowed it then yes you could do just that.



If this is what works for you then awesome. For what it is worth, bigger gyms can offer the same thing, you just need to find the right one



Yes, your gym could go recruit kids back but it can be a slippery slope for a small gym to offer financial incentive. Less money coming in means less profit and ultimately less services offered. As much as gyms promote a family feel it is a business. If not enough money coming in they will not survive.

Unethical recruiting practices include actively doing it at comps and during the cheer season. Which it sounds like the other gym is doing but was not in your original post. Kids are fair game after the season which is why gyms will often hold evaluations right after worlds, sometimes before, so they can lock up the kids.

For the business aspect, the business is not winning, that is a benefit of running a successful program. Knowing how to grow your athletes and advance them when they are ready. The business isn't family, if you want family and fairness for all do community recreation cheer where everything is dictated, even where you have to live to be in a certain program. You know, one of the Everybody gets a trophy program. That is the where entitlement comes from. You get a trophy for showing up, not for working your butt off and excelling.

What is wrong with leaving a job that no longer interests you? Nothing, especially if that job has nothing else to offer you whether it be financial, personal satisfaction or advancement. Relating this to cheer, WE are paying the gyms so if we as customers are not happy why should we stay? Gyms are not 1 size fits all. Bottom line is, and you know this, if your gym has a good product the kids will stay and even some of those who leave will be back.

I am politely declining the marriage advice. Might be for the best. [emoji15].

Btw, welcome to the boards. Lots of knowledge and opinions are available. Some are just better than others.


**Awwww isn't that cute, you have multiple user names and don't think we know**

This is what a local gym near two of the smaller gyms one town over are offering. Kind of strange how only offering at the gym that is close to two smaller gyms than at their other two locations, IMO

No we are not. I apologize if it was portrayed in that way. We are offering a new member to XXXXX incentive. We understand starting this late in the season it may be hard for some families to pay all the back fees that we spread out over the year. We are offering $250 credit to anyone who is joining the Mt Juliet location. We also offer free uniforms, but we did that for our entire program this season. I do realize that if you are currently at another gym and are looking to switch gyms, it does offset the cost of a "quitters fee". However it's really just an offer that is like signing up for a phone plan and getting a free phone. I certainly do not want to look like we are offering money for people to quit another program. It's good for people who have never cheered all-stars before as well! Let us know if you are interested!