All-Star Grand Unified Theory Of Cheerology

[kristenthegreat]

How much mid yea recruiting really goes on? Couldn't be enough to effect every athlete that leaves a gym.

We seem to get enough posts on here about it and it has to have happened at enough gyms where people were willing to sign off on something like that. I know you at one time could see what rule changes were submitted and could actually ready who signed off on them as well..it would be interesting to look at to see who finds it a problem.

I feel like it happens more at the small-gym level, and I was always in favor of it as a means of preventing gym-hopping. Since most teams don't compete until oct-dec, you've got quite a few months with which to decide whether or not you'll like your gym. I understand some things don't happen 'til competition season, at which time if you're dead-set miserable, you are at the mercy of your coaches. But I think it'll be like King said, people will be forced to think harder about their choices and will be quicker to respond if something isn't right, thereby giving the team they're leaving enough time to make adjustments. Yes, sometimes you'll be stuck either competing with a team you don't like or not competing at all, but I can't imagine complete and total horror came out of nowhere two days before competition.

There will be some surprises, but I think after the first year people will adjust quicker to what their needs are and to see if a gym meets them.

 

[BSS2000]

Our sport will survive with or without this rule. I just don't think giving a coach the opportunity to punish an athlete for quitting can be justified.

 

[Mrs.CheerExtreme]

We seem to get enough posts on here about it and it has to have happened at enough gyms where people were willing to sign off on something like that. I know you at one time could see what rule changes were submitted and could actually ready who signed off on them as well..it would be interesting to look at to see who finds it a problem.

I feel like it happens more at the small-gym level, and I was always in favor of it as a means of preventing gym-hopping. Since most teams don't compete until oct-dec, you've got quite a few months with which to decide whether or not you'll like your gym. I understand some things don't happen 'til competition season, at which time if you're dead-set miserable, you are at the mercy of your coaches. But I think it'll be like King said, people will be forced to think harder about their choices and will be quicker to respond if something isn't right, thereby giving the team they're leaving enough time to make adjustments. Yes, sometimes you'll be stuck either competing with a team you don't like or not competing at all, but I can't imagine complete and total horror came out of nowhere two days before competition.

There will be some surprises, but I think after the first year people will adjust quicker to what their needs are and to see if a gym meets them.

You can! Search for NACCC + USASF PDF and click on the first link. There are 43 pages of rules you can look through.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Our sport will survive with or without this rule. I just don't think giving a coach the opportunity to punish an athlete for quitting can be justified.

So take the coach out of the equation. Perhaps the rule would be better if written something like "If you quit a team after XX date(I guess they are saying a season starts and finishes with the 8.31 cutoff) and do not move AT LEAST 100 miles away from your current location, you CAN NOT compete on another team until 90 days has passed" Ok, so I'm not a rule-writer, but I think you get an idea.

Let me tell you that gym hopping is extremely prevalent where we are. One girl was actually on FOUR teams/gyms/programs in a manner of a couple of months last year. Several others play the game at multiple gyms throughout Summer ultimately deciding which team based on where they are placed. The idea that " a door is closed" if you leave is not so relevant here either where it is mainly small gyms struggling to survive. When you have 45-60 athletes, adding a paying athlete is a REAL number.

I think at first this rule will cause some minor discomfort, but down the road, as Kingston said, it will lead to athletes/families thinking harder/stronger and more thoroughly about which program they choose and why.

 

[MissCongeniality]

Thats pretty far. I would not drive up to 100 miles one way to get to practice. My parents would never let me.

Sorry I didn't mean move to a gym 100 miles away... I meant move your residence at least 100 miles away. Like if Suzy moved from California to Texas she could switch teams immediately. But if Suzie just is leaving a gym and moving to another gym in the same area (mid-season) she would have the waiting period. Also I was just throwing #s out there to give an idea of how you could word this rule so you take the coaches (and their role in getting to decide who goes and who doesn't) out of the equation. I have no idea what the numbers should/could be. I do know that US Swimming has it 120 days and doesn't care if you moved across the country or not at all. It is 120 regardless.

 

[BSS2000]

So take the coach out of the equation. Perhaps the rule would be better if written something like "If you quit a team after XX date(I guess they are saying a season starts and finishes with the 8.31 cutoff) and do not move AT LEAST 100 miles away from your current location, you CAN NOT compete on another team until 90 days has passed" Ok, so I'm not a rule-writer, but I think you get an idea.

Let me tell you that gym hopping is extremely prevalent where we are. One girl was actually on FOUR teams/gyms/programs in a manner of a couple of months last year. Several others play the game at multiple gyms throughout Summer ultimately deciding which team based on where they are placed. The idea that " a door is closed" if you leave is not so relevant here either where it is mainly small gyms struggling to survive. When you have 45-60 athletes, adding a paying athlete is a REAL number.

I think at first this rule will cause some minor discomfort, but down the road, as Kingston said, it will lead to athletes/families thinking harder/stronger and more thoroughly about which program they choose and why.

This seems a lot more reasonable. I don't like the rule but if it does come to exist I hope it's fair.

To Bow Maker, the point is you shouldn't cheer somewhere else if you quit after a given amount of time, so trying to drive out of the restricted zone would defeat the purpose of the rule.

 

[Num1Stunta]

Thought I'd take a crack at it (also add that I dont think there should be separate coed divisions for divisions lower than level 4) just listing the changes I would make to current levels

No points for confusion

Mini Level 1- stays as is
Youth Level 1- stays as is
Junior Level 1- allows passing through an extended position on 2 feet (show & go)
Senior Level 1- allows show & gos and extensions unbraced, allows prep-level one legs, extensions can connect to one leg prep in pyramids

Mini Level 2- no tosses, no extended stunts except double braced in pyramid
Youth Level 2- single leg extended in pyramids must be double braced, no half ins, straight ride tosses
Junior Level 2- allows pretty girls in tosses, half ins to prep level two legs
Senior Level 2- allows pretty and ball in tosses, half ins to one leg prep and extended two legs, tt bhs

Mini Level 3- no extended single leg stunts, no release moves in pyramid, only straight ride tosses, no combo passes to tuck
Youth Level 3- no twisting in tosses, no twisting from extension, pretty and ball tosses only, half up to prep single leg or extended 2 leg only, no combo passes to tuck, no release moves in pyramid, jump to single bhs only
Junior Level 3- allows half in to extension
Senior Level 3- stays as is

Senior 4.2- minimum age cap at 12, adds tt bhs to tumbling
Open/Intl 4.2- age 16+, adds tt bhs to tumbling

Youth Level 4- allows only 1-trick baskets, allows twists from extended two leg, allows fullup to prep, allows non-flipping release moves in pyramid double braced, NO standing tucks, standing tumbling limited to handspring series tuck, no jump connected to bhs tuck, no double downs
Junior Level 4- allows fullup to prep only, release moves to prep only
Senior Level 4- fullup to extended 2 feet only, release moves to 2 feet only
Open/Intl 4- stays with current level 4 rules

Youth Level 5- No doubles in tumbling, no twists in standing tumbling, no jump to tuck combination, no combination to fulls, fullup and release moves to 2 feet only, double downs from two feet only, 2-trick baskets only, all flippiing release moves in pyramid need to stay braced
Senior Restricted 5- No doubles in tumbling anywhere, no standing fulls, all release moves to 2 feet, no hitch kick doubles or kick kick doubles in tosses
Junior Level 5- fullup and release moves to 2 feet, no combination to doubles in tumbling, no hitch kick doubles or kick kick doubles in tosses
Senior Level 5- stays the same
Open/Intl 5- allows flipping entry to stunt without hand connection

Open/Intl 6- stays the same

In this model:
Mini- under 8
Youth- 9-12
Junior- 11-15
Senior- 12-18
Open/Intl- 16+

 

[cheerislove8]

The only thing with changing the level 1 requirements based on age is that a 7 year old can be on any team... youth, junior, or senior 1 so I don't see it making such a difference. Does that make sense?

 

[Num1Stunta]

The only thing with changing the level 1 requirements based on age is that a 7 year old can be on any team... youth, junior, or senior 1 so I don't see it making such a difference. Does that make sense?

you didnt read my post...

 

[cheerislove8]

you didnt read my post...

hahahaha whooooops I just saw that part at the bottom. My apologies

 

[Num1Stunta]

hahahaha whooooops I just saw that part at the bottom. My apologies

lol... yeah, it just seemed to make sense to me as I was writing it that the ages should be capped in all levels

 

[mstealtoyou]

Xpressjag this one?

 

[CGAcheer]

Thought I'd take a crack at it (also add that I dont think there should be separate coed divisions for divisions lower than level 4) just listing the changes I would make to current levels


Mini Level 1- stays as is
Youth Level 1- stays as is
Junior Level 1- allows passing through an extended position on 2 feet (show & go)
Senior Level 1- allows show & gos and extensions unbraced, allows prep-level one legs, extensions can connect to one leg prep in pyramids

Mini Level 2- no tosses, no extended stunts except double braced in pyramid
Youth Level 2- single leg extended in pyramids must be double braced, no half ins, straight ride tosses
Junior Level 2- allows pretty girls in tosses, half ins to prep level two legs
Senior Level 2- allows pretty and ball in tosses, half ins to one leg prep and extended two legs, tt bhs

Mini Level 3- no extended single leg stunts, no release moves in pyramid, only straight ride tosses, no combo passes to tuck
Youth Level 3- no twisting in tosses, no twisting from extension, pretty and ball tosses only, half up to prep single leg or extended 2 leg only, no combo passes to tuck, no release moves in pyramid, jump to single bhs only
Junior Level 3- allows half in to extension
Senior Level 3- stays as is

Senior 4.2- minimum age cap at 12, adds tt bhs to tumbling
Open/Intl 4.2- age 16+, adds tt bhs to tumbling

Youth Level 4- allows only 1-trick baskets, allows twists from extended two leg, allows fullup to prep, allows non-flipping release moves in pyramid double braced, NO standing tucks, standing tumbling limited to handspring series tuck, no jump connected to bhs tuck, no double downs
Junior Level 4- allows fullup to prep only, release moves to prep only
Senior Level 4- fullup to extended 2 feet only, release moves to 2 feet only
Open/Intl 4- stays with current level 4 rules

Youth Level 5- No doubles in tumbling, no twists in standing tumbling, no jump to tuck combination, no combination to fulls, fullup and release moves to 2 feet only, double downs from two feet only, 2-trick baskets only, all flippiing release moves in pyramid need to stay braced
Senior Restricted 5- No doubles in tumbling anywhere, no standing fulls, all release moves to 2 feet, no hitch kick doubles or kick kick doubles in tosses
Junior Level 5- fullup and release moves to 2 feet, no combination to doubles in tumbling, no hitch kick doubles or kick kick doubles in tosses
Senior Level 5- stays the same
Open/Intl 5- allows flipping entry to stunt without hand connection

Open/Intl 6- stays the same

In this model:
Mini- under 8
Youth- 9-12
Junior- 11-15
Senior- 12-18
Open/Intl- 16+

I don't like this at all. for one thing I'm not seeing a difference between Mini 1 and 2.
I hate bottom ages. I have about 7 kids that are under 8 on my youth team, do I make a super small team or just tell them I don't have a team for them? My 60 kids that make 3 great full sized teams would be forced into 4 teams that have nothing to do with talent, they would just be stuck with their age.

if you are going to make progressions age based, it should be simpler.
allow straight ride tosses, prep level libs at Jr and Sr 1
single standing Back Handsprings at Sr 1.
extended libs and one trick non twisting tosses at Jr and Sr 2
Jump to handspring at Sr 2
and I'd leave the rest of it about how it is or however the votes end up

I could also see changing Level 4 standing tumbling to be any flipping skill(tucks, layouts, x-outs, step outs), but no tumbling after the flipping skill.
in Restricted 5 you get whips and arabians through to stuff, but a full twist ends the pass. No flip flip combinations and full twists require back handspring entry.
Along those same lines I could see having no tumbling out of a double for standing tumbling in 5

I might would also add 2 flipping and 3 twisting rotations to tumbling in 6 to make it the true Top skill level.
(I know people won't have full squad double backs for triple fulls, but it would be cool to see the 1 or 2 specialty passes that would be on some teams, its kinda like a standing double, not a lot of people can do it but its legal and sets people apart)

 

[Num1Stunta]

I don't like this at all. for one thing I'm not seeing a difference between Mini 1 and 2.
I hate bottom ages. I have about 7 kids that are under 8 on my youth team, do I make a super small team or just tell them I don't have a team for them? My 60 kids that make 3 great full sized teams would be forced into 4 teams that have nothing to do with talent, they would just be stuck with their age.

if you are going to make progressions age based, it should be simpler.
allow straight ride tosses, prep level libs at Jr and Sr 1
single standing Back Handsprings at Sr 1.
extended libs and one trick non twisting tosses at Jr and Sr 2
Jump to handspring at Sr 2
and I'd leave the rest of it about how it is or however the votes end up

I could also see changing Level 4 standing tumbling to be any flipping skill(tucks, layouts, x-outs, step outs), but no tumbling after the flipping skill.
in Restricted 5 you get whips and arabians through to stuff, but a full twist ends the pass. No flip flip combinations and full twists require back handspring entry.
Along those same lines I could see having no tumbling out of a double for standing tumbling in 5

I might would also add 2 flipping and 3 twisting rotations to tumbling in 6 to make it the true Top skill level.
(I know people won't have full squad double backs for triple fulls, but it would be cool to see the 1 or 2 specialty passes that would be on some teams, its kinda like a standing double, not a lot of people can do it but its legal and sets people apart)

1. The difference between Mini 1 and Mini 2 is prep level one legs, barrel rolls, half ins, and extended double braced one legs... but yeah, maybe add extensions with one brace?

2. Yeah, as a small gym, that would be an issue for us too... I guess I would personally rather have smaller teams that are more exact to skill. For instance, a friend of mine has an allstar program with just over 50 kids and they are organized by Sr 4, Sr 1, Jr 3, Yth 2, Mini 1... there are some crossovers, but none of them compete with more than 12 and they've had a very successful season so far, because their teams are age-appropriate AND have full team tumbling and stunt capabilities.

3. Single standing bhs in senior 1 would not make sense... those kids are usually there because they have NO tumbling, not even cartwheel... but I like the rest of them

4. I like the level 4 modification for the younger teams, and the restricted 5, and the standing restriction for level 5 would be a good one for juniors

5. noooooooo lol

 

[CGAcheer]

1. The difference between Mini 1 and Mini 2 is prep level one legs, barrel rolls, half ins, and extended double braced one legs... but yeah, maybe add extensions with one brace?

2. Yeah, as a small gym, that would be an issue for us too... I guess I would personally rather have smaller teams that are more exact to skill. For instance, a friend of mine has an allstar program with just over 50 kids and they are organized by Sr 4, Sr 1, Jr 3, Yth 2, Mini 1... there are some crossovers, but none of them compete with more than 12 and they've had a very successful season so far, because their teams are age-appropriate AND have full team tumbling and stunt capabilities.

3. Single standing bhs in senior 1 would not make sense... those kids are usually there because they have NO tumbling, not even cartwheel... but I like the rest of them

4. I like the level 4 modification for the younger teams, and the restricted 5, and the standing restriction for level 5 would be a good one for juniors

5. noooooooo lol

2. We have 60 kids and 3 strong teams, our only permanent crossover is due to one girl quitting after choreography she is crossing up from our Youth 1 to our Jr 2.
Our Youth 1 has 17 ranging from 6 to 11, Jr 2 has 24 ranging from 9 to 14 and Sr 3 ranging from 12 to 17 has 20. So we keep them relatively age appropriate. Our 6 year old has a standing and running back hand spring, but she's 6 and acts like a 6 year old so we keep her on the youth 1. One of the 9 year olds definitely has the skills to fit in with the seniors but she's a foot shorter than the smallest senior, so we choose to keep her on Jrs.
I guess my point is that every situation is unique and no one knows their particular situation better than the coaches, and if you put bottom ages, you take away the coaches ability to fill their teams with the particular kids in their program, you instead leave them with no option. In your friends program, imagine an 8 yr old with round off 3 bhs, that poor kid would be stuck with the 5 and 6 year olds who've never cheered a day in their lives instead of being on the youth 2 team.

3. I put that only in Sr 1 because at the Sr age they are about as likely to learn a walkover as they are a handspring. All of last year I only saw 1 Sr 1 team and I think it was 1 or 2 kids on it that made them Sr. If the prep level lib and single standing bhs were in there I think the division would grow. And honestly I don't think I've ever had a new 16 year old walk into the gym wanting to learn how to kick over.

5. 6 is the only level where the tumbling doesn't go up in difficulty. Less than 10 years ago a standing full was amazing, there was maybe 1 or 2 on the top level teams, now all the top level teams have like 5 plus standing fulls, now people are starting to compete standing doubles, its just the progression of the sport. in another 6 or 7 years standing doubles will be common place and squad standing full not unusual. Running tumbling might be a front double, punch one and half, punch double, double, double, double. There should be the room for athletes to grow beyond what they are currently doing.