Gyms Releasing Athletes

Discussion in 'Allstar Cheerleading' started by SthrnCheerMom, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. OldskoolKYcheercoach

    OldskoolKYcheercoach I think I can mix Cheer Music

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    To touch on a new topic you brought up. “Open” enrollment in KY varies from district to district. I did not realize this until this football season (20 years in), when I asked someone how one particular district is able to field such power house teams in virtually every activity. Apparently it started years ago and the kids hit high school and go to whichever of the high schools seems to fit them the best athletically, as opposed to being forced into a program like a square peg in a round hole.

     
  2. alpaca

    alpaca Somewhere... some one.... is giving me a slow clap

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    The idea of Open Enrollment fascinates me. Where I live, they tend to be strict about kids going to school in the district that they live in. Upon entering kindergarten, again in middle and again in high school you are required to provide 3 forms of identification with your address. They want to see your mortgage statement/deed or apartment lease. They will accept utility bills, credit card bids, cable TV bills. There is a homeless population which does not have this documentation and there is staff set up to accommodate this situation. I know that there are some people that get around the rules, and some coaches that will walk them through the process. But that is a rare exception.
     
  3. luv2cheer92

    luv2cheer92 Moderator Staff Member Bracket Winner Video Curator

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    It's interesting for sure. The county in VA I grew up in, all the high schools had some kind of specialty program. Science, arts, tech, IB, etc. You could pick whatever high school you wanted to go to in the county, as long as you took one class each year that was a part of that program. I passed 3 high schools to go to the one I went to, mostly because I moved at the end of 8th grade and wanted to go to the same school as all my friends I grew up with.

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  4. emo_wifey

    emo_wifey Best Flyer.. on a parent team

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    It's fascinating to me too for the same reason. CP's district requires it twice every year because her district is so desirable and so full. Idk how it works now as CP is in elem still, but when I went there for activities involving a tryout you couldn't come in in the middle of the year. You had to wait until the next year's tryouts rolled around.

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  5. mischiefmanaged

    mischiefmanaged I nugget in the back

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    I’m also in Arizona and the open enrollment is statewide. I don’t have high school kids yet but I’ve heard that the reason AIA is strict about their rules especially for transfer students is because of the statewide open enrollment.
     
  6. Amie815

    Amie815 I shimmy daily

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    People are saying she signed an agreement, but don’t most gyms have athletes sign a contract about bullying as well? Don’t they state they won’t allow bullying? So if the gym did nothing about this child being bullied then the gym broke the contract by not addressing the athlete, which means her contract is null and void and no release needed. I hope they get an attorney involved so maybe these gym owners will stop keeping bullies around just because they are talented.
     
  7. tuckxandxtwist

    tuckxandxtwist Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    There is a line that needs to be set with the bullying term if people are going to go to extremes and get attorneys involved.

    My senior year of high school I was on a team with a girl who did not like me. AT ALL. She was nasty to me, made comments about me during practice to other girls on the team (within ear shot of the parents who were in the open viewing area and could hear), and at outside events (like a teammates birthday) she made comments to people who I had never met and would never see again because I lived in a different state....Never once would I look back on that and think "it was bullying." Did I have a problem/issues with her? Absolutely, but I didn't consider it bullying and my parents would have laughed me out of the house for suggesting getting an attorney because I wanted to break the contract that we signed at the beginning of the season and the gym wouldn't release me.

    From my limited knowledge of the situation, the girl doesn't outright say "bullying" in her post. She says she had an issue with someone. For all we know, it was a former friend who stole the boy she liked, and the girl is rubbing it in her face. A problem, yes, bullying, no. If there was truly bullying, then there is a larger problem than just getting to compete at worlds, but it would have to be incredibly extreme with proof of the gym's negligence in stopping/preventing it for an attorney to even begin to look at it.

    When it comes down to it, the girl skipped her practice to attend another team's practice. I have been in gyms that would (and have) make an athlete sit out of the entire routine if they did that the week of a competition, not just take them out of a stunt sequence.
     
  8. OldskoolKYcheercoach

    OldskoolKYcheercoach I think I can mix Cheer Music

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    None of that makes any difference because no one should have the right to tell her/her family where they can spend their money.

    If this is challenged in court, I think USASF and the gym will lose.
     
  9. tuckxandxtwist

    tuckxandxtwist Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    @OldskoolKYcheercoach I misunderstood what you said. I apologize. Do you really think it would be a loss if the attorney was really only brought in on terms of bullying? That's what I took the post I had quoted to mean with the "stop letting gym owners keep bullies on teams because their talented" comment...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  10. OldskoolKYcheercoach

    OldskoolKYcheercoach I think I can mix Cheer Music

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    I’m not sure if we communicated or miscommunicated...or if we were on two different planets LOL.

    My reference to having an attorney and a court case really was referring to the rule itself.

    First a disclaimer: taking an issue such as this to civil court is about as frivolous as you can get. I would instantly lose all respect for anyone who took it that far trying to get their kid freed up to compete at a cheerleading competition.

    However:

    I do not believe that this rule would stand the test of legality. I also would suspect that about 98% of all star gym “contracts” would fail the same test in terms of their ability to prevent an athlete from competing for another gym in the same season. Even most employment contracts with non-compete clauses don’t hold up when put to the test. At best, a gym’s “contract” would probably only allow them to collect any money due to them, and only the ones that have been carefully worded and constructed by an attorney would probably meet that burden.
     
  11. Knowcheering

    Knowcheering Last Pass... on International Open 1

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    There was no way I could make a perfect comparison because there are no other sports that operate like All Star cheer. The vast majority of Olympians & college athletes don't make any money. Bottom line is, athletes aren't allowed to leave their team and compete on another team for a World title/National title a week or month later. Regardless of the exact reasons why this rule is in place for each sport, the competition is more fair and honest when mid-season switching isn't allowed.

    As for Olympic athletes having huge earning potential from endorsements, that's only the case for superstars like the gymnastics team, Michael Phelps, Shaun White, etc. The thousands of Olympians who don't win medals don't have any real chance at endorsements and mostly rely on their parents or take on outside jobs to pay for their training. US Olympians don't get financial support from the government like they might in other countries. And regardless of earning potential, if any Olympic level athlete wanted to switch to another country/team, they would have to go through a lengthy process which often involves sitting out of competition for a prolonged period of time and obtaining a release from the previous country they represented (which occasionally takes years). A swimmer competing for Germany can't just start competing for the US a month later. It doesn't work like that.

    I'm surprised anyone who cares about fairness in competition would be vehemently against this rule. Nobody is saying this girl should sit out forever. They're just saying you shouldn't be able to waltz onto a new team a few weeks before Worlds just because you got taken out of the air, or because your teammate doesn't like you, or because you have a chance to globe somewhere else. There should be rules and consequences. It's sad if the girl was truly bullied, but you can't make rules that cater to every kid's individual circumstances & desires. As I said before, this should probably be a standard USASF rule, not something left up to the individual gyms.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  12. coacha

    coacha I Fierce Board instead of work/study

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    I coach HS and I have had kids leave mid-season for an all-star program. It sucks. Especially since when doing an exit interview with the kids its usually been for reasons that are somewhat out of my control ("I don't like cheering for basketball" or "I want to compete more often"). And gee, it would be nice if I could not sign a waiver and not release them. It would make me feel better. :)

    But if Team A decides that Flyer is no longer is in the best position on the team and has not created an environment where she feels loyalty to her team, she has spent thousands of dollars under the assumption that she will continue as a flyer and Team B can use her as a flyer, why should Team A get a say in whether she leaves for Team B? What on earth does that have to do with fairness of competition? If anything, it levels the playing field. Sure, it's detrimental to Team A, and it forces teams everywhere to create environments where kids feel loyalty to their programs so they don't lose kids, but how is suddenly unfair competition? It might feel unfair to Team A. But if Team B suddenly has an advantage, then maybe Team A shouldn't have lost her in the first place.

    I could support a non-tampering rule where teams cannot promise things to athletes to get them to jump ship.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  13. CLynn

    CLynn I named my pet Sir Fierce-a-lot

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    See this is where the hang up is for me and why I am ok with the rule or some form of tampering rule as you suggest. We are all discussing one scenario where the athlete was demoted or feels wronged, unhappy etc but there are other circumstances. Let's say Big Name Allstars has an injury or wants to upgrade their routine? I like that there is something that would somewhat limit their ability to hold an open casting call or scout other teams at competitions. From what I've witnessed, loyalty has its limits when Suzie's dream team has a spot for her, and hey it is already March so we can handle a three hour commute to said gym for 2 months. Having some rule protects not just the program but also all the other athletes on the team who are also paying customers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  14. catlady

    catlady Slow your roll, Sparkle.

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    ^^^This. The obvious problem without the rule, the top teams would always be able to fill their roster, as well as, kick off weak links right up until World's within roster change rules. Heck, go to one of the last events of the season and get a new bid for additional roster changes, because it would be that easy for a top team. The USASF rule provides stability, and therefore some financial protection, for the athletes, parents and gyms across the board. No one wants their kid kicked off Fabulous AS's, because Ima Mazing said she was willing to leave her program. No one wants to keep losing athletes to Fabulous and Marvelous AS's, because they have injuries, non-payers, kids moving, etc. throughout the year.
     
  15. DonnaM

    DonnaM I text ACEDAD all the time

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    Yes. As a parent of a not particularly talented, but tries hard, never misses practice kid, it is extremely frustrating when kids waltz in when their competitive school season is over, or because they or their parent got mad at something at their prior gym (and these are usually kids who hopped away from our gym previously) and kids who have been there all the way through get pulled from stuff that they’re improving on in favor of the new person. It may improve the team, and help thengym get bigger trophies and more banners, but there’s a cost, too.