All-Star How Does Cea Stay In Business With So Many Level 5 Teams?

[SharkDad]

Here is Courtney's Post from her answers thread:

This is a great question. We are often wondering the same thing. The reality is that in Kville kids don't stay Level 4 very long and with the advent of Mini level 3 and youth level 5, those that come up through our program are true level 5 athletes by the time they are junior age and stay that way. We certainly attract numerous level 5 kids, but mostly our team rosters are FILLED with kids who will be Level 5 whether they are this month or not come October. We think of it this way : If cheerleading were analogous to elementary school, and Level 2 was second grade, Level 3 was third grade...etc...the expectation would be to graduate from one level to the next each season. If we can't make that happen for an athlete and they summarily "fail" their grade and return back to the second grade ( repeat level 2 again )...we failed as their teachers. It is funny to me to see the celebration that exists on teams of athletes who have been level 2 for 3 or 4 years. To us, that is the equivalent of celebrating the same spelling test words for the 4th year in a row and being excited about knowing them. This is not meant to be offensive...just an analogy to see why we do have so many level 5 teams. We feel our parents as our customers are paying for instruction first and foremost...not assembly of skills. This is also why our lower level teams do not achieve the ability to be truly competitive in a division until the end of the season ( when they have actually become level 2, level 3, etc ). It is astounding to look back and see the growth over a season from the Showcase to the last competition. We think our parents appreciate watching the metamorphosis of the team...and each season we ask our parents to make sure they still stand by this decision. It would be much easier to compete kids at their current level without expecting them to progress.

@imrichhowboutu doesn't think a gym can sustain this. Please discuss. . .

 

[CharlotteASMom]

We started a new thread discussing Courtney's direct post here...

http://fierceboard.com/threads/is-it-a-failure-to-not-progress.16368/

I think Rich's comments below are more of what you are referring to.

"There are only 6 lower level teams (less than 175 athletes) and 6 level 5 teams (200 athletes if none were crossovers). I would say most gyms have 75% lower level and 25% level 5 teams. Are your level 5 teams not comprised of mostly level 5 athletes perhaps? I just don't see how a program could have long lasting success without a strong foundation to stand on."​

 

[SharkDad]

@StarshipTrooper alluded to this, but yes. . .CEA does grow many kids from mini level 1. Courtney mentioned that the way they progress with CEA coaches, they are normally level 5 by the time they are Juniors, with a number of them being level 5 as Youth. This would be one of the reasons there are more level 5 teams than some people think compared to lower levels.

Also keep in mind that there are 7 gyms in the program so kids may move around a bit to be on a certain team that fits their ability level. Don't just look at the snapshot of the Kernersville gym or any other to determine how the whole program works.

 

[newcheerdad]

To paraphrase my response in another thread:

It's an interesting question, which is why I'm curious as to the percentage of kids on level 5 teams for some of these elite gyms that are "homegrown". (i.e., kids that started in your program with no experience and became level 5 cheerleaders)

We have lots of homegrown level 4/5 kids in our program, but those teams are a small fraction of our gym population.

My thought is that elite gyms like CEA or World Cup, because of their name recognition and track record, have an advantage. Unlike most gyms which draw athletes from their surrounding community only, these gyms will draw athletes from a larger geographic radius. I know people on this board who drive 2 or 3 hours each way to cheer at an elite gym, and most often they're doing so because local gyms don't provide them the training or levels that they desire. So a percentage of kids (and I don't know what that percentage is - I'd be curious to know) come into the program with elite or near-elite skills.

Now, of course, those programs had to build themselves up to become elite programs in just the way you'd think - one kid at time, by coaching them up from ground zero. But once you are elite, I would think it becomes the way to sustain yourself even if you don't have the distribution at the lower level that other gyms have.

 

[SharkDad]

We started a new thread discussing Courtney's direct post here...

http://fierceboard.com/threads/is-it-a-failure-to-not-progress.16368/

I think Rich's comments below are more of what you are referring to.

"There are only 6 lower level teams (less than 175 athletes) and 6 level 5 teams (200 athletes if none were crossovers). I would say most gyms have 75% lower level and 25% level 5 teams. Are your level 5 teams not comprised of mostly level 5 athletes perhaps? I just don't see how a program could have long lasting success without a strong foundation to stand on."​

Yes. It seemed to me like a different topic than your question about progression.

 

[King]

If CEA had nothing but senior level five teams and could stay in business then I don't think there's anything wrong with that.



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[imrichhowboutu]

You are right with the other gyms and I was just looking at K'ville. And when i was discussing the future of the program, I was discussing the future of level 5s as well. With so few lower level teams, how would it be feasible to keep those level 5s strong and prospering if there was a smaller percentage of kids to move up within the program.

I believed that gyms were able to maintain strong level 5 teams by growing athletes from the ground up and by having a large feeding pool to move them up through. At gyms like Maryland Twisters, Cheer Athletics, and World Cup. There is literally a team that is suitable for EVERY athlete at EVERY level and age. This I feel creates the ability for athletes to truely progress from division/ level to the higher ones.

And i think the title of the post should be how does CEA stay in business with such a small percentage of lower level teams that don't seem to excel in their respective divisions.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

My thought is that elite gyms like CEA or World Cup, because of their name recognition and track record, have an advantage. Unlike most gyms which draw athletes from their surrounding community only, these gyms will draw athletes from a larger geographic radius.

I agree and don't think there is a thing wrong with that. I would disagree however that kids leave other gyms only because they are not being trained properly. There are other factors involved like there not being a team available for their skill level, kids/parents are disgruntled that they didn't get the team they thought they "deserved", amoung other factors.

ON a side note....Five years ago you couldn't even mention CEA had crossovers without getting attacked here and told it was a rare occurence. Now it's discussed frequently and in a positive way as part of their normal business practice. I think the issue of attracting higher level athletes will become a topic like that as well. There's not a thing wrong with it and CEA fought hard to become a gym that can do that. However, denying that it happens is kinda silly.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

If CEA had nothing but senior level five teams and could stay in business then I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Agreed

 

[newcheerdad]

I agree and don't think there is a thing wrong with that. I would disagree however that kids leave other gyms only because they are not being trained properly. There are other factors involved like there not being a team available for their skill level, kids/parents are disgruntled that they didn't get the team they thought they "deserved", amoung other factors.

ON a side note....Five years ago you couldn't even mention CEA had crossovers without getting attacked here and told it was a rare occurence. Now it's discussed frequently and in a positive way as part of their normal business practice. I think the issue of attracting higher level athletes will become an topic like that as well. There's not a thing worng with it and they CEA fought hard to become a gym that can do that. However, denying that it happens is kinda silly.

I think there are a multitude of factors for someone leaving their program to go a powerhouse. I don't think that training or not having a level 5 team is the sole reason, and didn't mean to imply that. My point, though, is that a gym like CEA is going to be a destination for elite cheerleaders in a way that other lesser-known gyms might not. And that's a reputation that's well-earned and there is not only nothing wrong with that, it's a testament to the quality of the program.

 

[Nothanks]

I posted this in the CEA question thread, and I feel like it could, after considerable tweaking, detailing and actually putting it into a real plan instead of just a generalized idea...

what if those bigger/smaller gyms worked together...not the big gym buying out the small gym, but that small gym training lower levels and training them to "feed into" the bigger gym level 5s?
what if it came down to saying, either we buy you out and you lose your program as a whole or we work together?
at least that program would be able to keep their athletes, and i would imagine that they would get a lot of athletes that are aiming towards eventually being that star senior 5 athlete.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i think a lot of gymnastics programs work that way. very few gyms across the nation offer elite training (or maybe even level 10) and once an athlete gets to that caliber, they sit down with their coach to discuss where to continue training.
consider it "sister gym" type training.

I feel like gyms like CEA would be the ones to start off this trend because of their multitude of level 5 athletes.

like i said, it'd need a LOT of details added and over-all tweaking, but i think it could be beneficial--keep those small gyms going by them having their lower levels and no fear of being bought out or everyone leaving to go to the big name.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

I posted this in the CEA question thread, and I feel like it could, after considerable tweaking, detailing and actually putting it into a real plan instead of just a generalized idea...

what if those bigger/smaller gyms worked together...not the big gym buying out the small gym, but that small gym training lower levels and training them to "feed into" the bigger gym level 5s?
what if it came down to saying, either we buy you out and you lose your program as a whole or we work together?
at least that program would be able to keep their athletes, and i would imagine that they would get a lot of athletes that are aiming towards eventually being that star senior 5 athlete.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i think a lot of gymnastics programs work that way. very few gyms across the nation offer elite training (or maybe even level 10) and once an athlete gets to that caliber, they sit down with their coach to discuss where to continue training.
consider it "sister gym" type training.

I feel like gyms like CEA would be the ones to start off this trend because of their multitude of level 5 athletes.

like i said, it'd need a LOT of details added and over-all tweaking, but i think it could be beneficial--keep those small gyms going by them having their lower levels and no fear of being bought out or everyone leaving to go to the big name.

Minus the buying out part, I feel that is what cea does. They already own the other gyms, but they grow the lower level athletes. Then they are moved around.

 

[KRECCheer]

like i said, it'd need a LOT of details added and over-all tweaking, but i think it could be beneficial--keep those small gyms going by them having their lower levels and no fear of being bought out or everyone leaving to go to the big name.

But isnt the overall goal of the small gym with lower levels to eventually have teams that compete level 5? I understand where the idea comes from but I think most would say we arent training them to leave our family. We're training them so we reach this goal together.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

what if those bigger/smaller gyms worked together...not the big gym buying out the small gym, but that small gym training lower levels and training them to "feed into" the bigger gym level 5s?

I don't think it's that simple. Gyms aren't necesarily being shut down because powerhouse gyms like CEA attract some athletes. I only know our gym's situation and don't even know all those details but for example...

Last year was an unusual year for CAC when we lost 10-15 level 5 athletes to CEA. Their reasons for leaving were varied and will remain with those involved. Even after those loses we grew in numbers as a gym, still had three level 5 teams, and TEAL was a bronze medalist. This year we have 4 - level 5 teams and made huge gains in overall numbers. Likewise, there are several smaller gyms in the area that have level 5 teams and love the feel of a smaller sized family feel and are able to keep with that business model.

Point being...there is is a lot of talent out there and a gym for everyone. Some kids want to be at well-known powerhouse gyms and some don't. Every gym offers something different but it doesn't mean they can't be successful.

 

[mstealtoyou]

I really hope she goes down her roster and counts the homegrown kids from our program. It's a number I'd really like to know. I would venture to guess it's much higher then people think.