All-Star How Long Does It Take Before You Realize?

[anythingforcheer]

Would like to hear from coaches and even parents on this topic: How long would you give a team before realizing the team makeup isn't working out or the team will not be competitive in a particular division? Do you keep the parents informed throughout the practices especially with tuition being paid for your cp to be on that particular team. Also, of it doesn't work out should parents expect refund of monies?

 

[AScheer]

I'm a coach of a school team, but have done allstars in the past. This is hard to answer because every team and situation is different, and I won't always have the same answers but in general this is my opinion... I personally think its rare that a team make-up flat out won't work. There may be A LOT of rearranging necessary, and a couple of additions or subtractions of members needed, but to completely say it won't work means theres probably a coaching issue, not an athlete issue. I think its fairly easy to see if a team will be able to compete their division/level well or not. Its a simple do they have the required skills or not? If not are they close? If thats still a no then coaches should reconsider the level or division they are in. I once put a team in a level knowing they weren't currently at it, and they rose to the challenge. I think the coach just has to know how to push them and know their limits of if its possible. Yes and no to informing parents. I don't try to hide anything from parents, but I also don't share every little thought that goes through my head about the team. I don't like to share info unless I'm positive it will happen. This is mostly just to avoid unnecessary drama and rumors that inevitably follow with many parents. A lot of times my ideas never even go into effect (good or bad) so it would all be for nothing if the crazy circus started and nothing even happened! As for a refund that depends on the situation. If the team doesn't work out all together and there is nothing left then yes there should be a refund of certain things. Things that I personally think should never be refunded are items paid for that were received (uniforms, practice clothes, etc) and tuition. If the parent just decides however that they don't want to be apart of the team anymore and want to go elsewhere then I don't think a refund in necessarily in order. The gym committed to you for a year, you committed to them, so if your the one leaving it shouldn't be their problem.

 

[Mamarazzi]

A team not "being competitive" and a team "not being able to compete" are two totally different things. Can you clarify your question, @cheerfanaticmama ?

 

[anythingforcheer]

Thank you @AScheer for your perspective. I agree that monies for certain items should cannot be refunded, but if you commit to the organization based on the team your cp made and the organization decides that we aren't going to have the team because of various reasons, i.e., some of the athletes aren't gaining the required skill fast enough or not enough athletes on the team as the season progresses (athletes quit or put on other teams), should parents expect some type of refund of monies paid if they decide to leave, especially if the plan is to put athletes on a lower level team in the organization.

 

[TheVipersMom]

Well I'm not going to answer on anything other then the refund!

My cp is on a level 1 mini team because she is 6& a level 2 youth team because she has the skill.

I paid extra or more for a few things like more tuition, a second and more expensive uniform, a 2nd pair of shoes because the youth wears different ones, and 2 payments for music.

The reason I say all that is I'm ok with my daughter competing and me paying more because she wants to do her BHS in competition and be with kids who can do what she does.

We have a few girls who are on youth 2 because of age not because of skill. There too old for mini's who are level 1 but don't have the skill for level 2 but because we are not a large gym we don't have the athletes to support a youth1 team.

At practice sometimes its just not working out, they do struggle and I know sometimes they tell them if you can't get it together we will go level1- & give you a baby routine! If you can't land your BHS correctly you won't do it and so on!

Although other parents probably wouldn't care if they dropped to level 1- I would!
If your going to do level 1 then my cp doesn't need to be on that team she is on mini's and can do that there. I would expect a refund for every cent paid for the higher team. I would want my uniform money refunded as well. I don't care if you already gave me the uniform I would give it back!

Now our girls can pull it of though, they have enough level2 skills to be competitive and the few girls who don't have a BHS are pretty close. So by the time we compete there will probably only be 1 girl who doesn't have it. The stunting aspect of level 2 seems to be doing good and the jumps as well! It's just more so the cleanliness of the routine that keeps are girls struggling as it's really fast. Now if my child was only on that team as she couldnt be on her other then all though I'd be disappointed I'd be ok with it for the team aspect of it and just let her compete! I also wouldn't want a refund! So it all depends- good luck!!!

 

[lilmonstermaker]

I think a team would be more likely to change levels than to say it flat out wasn't working.

The first year the sideline cheer team I coached decided to compete in Allstar comps as a rec team was very scary. Our mini team had very inconsistent attendance and it was difficult to establish a solid routine. We pulled out of our first scheduled comp and ended up competing in the non-mount division. We refunded the difference in comp fees, but anyone who quit the team based on the division change received nothing, the same as if they quit for any other reason. We never guaranteed anyone that the girls would compete in a specific level and ultimately had to do the safest and best thing for the team as a whole.

Last year at CPs gym our mini 1 ended up competing as mini show rec 2. I know a lot of parents were upset, but they had several parent meetings to explain the issues (general lack of experience, but a few BHS). The change was made about two months before the first comp. No refunds were given.

 

[SharkDad]

I am deffinitely not a coach but I have seen this happen to many teams.

I think that many challenges and lessons throughout the year can be attributed and brought back to teamwork. Coaches spend a lot of time and effort to choose teams based on tryouts, then pick routines and music. If there is anything to fix there, then obviously it's one way to go.

But more often than not I see teams that need to come together and put out the effort required of a team-indivudals doing their best for the best of the group. There are obviously many places on a team where teamwork comes to play, but I would look for the coach of a team having problems to ensure all the teammates take responsibility for their effort, commitment to the team, and support for one another.

I think that changing levels, dropping athletes who are not committed, or changing music/choreography are all options, but the athletes learn much more from sticking it out and learning to succeed together.

 

[Twinklilstarsmom]

I am going through this right now. My CP was on her true level team which has been disbanded. She's been placed on a lower level team with the promise that just maybe she will make another team on her level. I'm not ok with this as I have to maintain extra tumbling and stunting privates to keep her at her True skill. I think I should be refunded my comp fees,although I am ok with not getting back gym fees. I knew the team was a stretch from the beg.however I was convinced that the team would work. While I cant blame the gym per say, my CP will be sitting out this season, and just doing privates.

 

[INeverStopCheering]

I'm a pretty snap judgement kind of person, and I usually form an opinion really fast about what's going to work and what's not. I knew from our first practice Mini 2 was not going to happen and after a couple practices we changed to a 1. I don't think parents should be refunded for money that's still going to be used. Level 2 or level 4 you're still going to get music and choreography and they're still going to compete at the same place (usually). If there was an extra fee for each level (i.e level 2 pays more tuition than one) that should be given back. Unless it's a true lack of tumbling (where no one is close to having it) or bad stunts to the point of danger I would opt for sticking it out and maybe making it easier. But, that always isn't an option, and the sooner this can be done the better. I say inform parents after the decision. Otherwise you get parents giving their opinions and then getting mad when the coach doesn't take their advice. It should be a poll the public kind of ordeal.

 

[BubbleToes]

So, I'm thinking...if you're gym switches divisions or levels, do you pull your kid out? Or do you let them cheer at a lower level or a different division. From a division stand point (like from large to small or all girl to coed but still the same level) I wouldn't think it such a big deal. But from 5 to 4 and the like, it might be an issue. I would think most hardcore cheerleaders "have" to cheer one way or the other. Are the other teams at your gym unacceptable for you to cheer for them?

And for that matter, why is "sticking it out" considered a virtue? You joined/paid to be on a certain team/level/division....why shouldn't you get what you paid for. REFUND PLEASE!

 

[Mamarazzi]

And for that matter, why is "sticking it out" considered a virtue? You joined/paid to be on a certain team/level/division....why shouldn't you get what you paid for. REFUND PLEASE!

Well, I think it's pretty Susie's Mom to presume that my kid would be on a particular team, and join a gym simply because of that. Most athletes have some, but not ALL, of a particular level's skills.
I pay for my kid to cheer at ABC gym. I don't pay for my kid to only be on XYZ team. That's not the point of what she does.

 

[BubbleToes]

Well, I think it's pretty Susie's Mom to presume that my kid would be on a particular team, and join a gym simply because of that. Most athletes have some, but not ALL, of a particular level's skills.
I pay for my kid to cheer at ABC gym. I don't pay for my kid to only be on XYZ team. That's not the point of what she does.

So you would choose to stay and not have any issues if you joined a gym, made the level 5 team the gym advertised because of your kids level 5 skills, but before competition season, the team was changed to 4 with no other 5 options?

 

[ocbeaches]

So you would choose to stay and not have any issues if you joined a gym, made the level 5 team the gym advertised because of your kids level 5 skills, but before competition season, the team was changed to 4 with no other 5 options?

I would stay. unless there were some otherother issues, safety being one. I want my CP to be the best CP she can be, wherever and whatever that is to her. We made a committment to the gym, and to the other kids in that gym. Would I love it.. no. But just as important as cheering on that ZYZ team is learning a life lesson. You make a committment, you keep it, you stick it out. You do your best to make it the best it can be. Teamwork and keeping your word is a better lesson than giving my CP the idea that it is all about her alone out there on the mat. And if she\I dont like something, it is ok to "cut bait & run". Once you have fulfilled that committment, look for a new home if by then you still want to.

Not saying I would be happy but I could live with the fact she is learning a lot more than how to throw a double. JMO We have been in that position where I would have LOVED to walk away.

 

[Mamarazzi]

So you would choose to stay and not have any issues if you joined a gym, made the level 5 team the gym advertised because of your kids level 5 skills, but before competition season, the team was changed to 4 with no other 5 options?

Exactly what @ocbeaches said.

But, I would be confident in saying that our gym/program wouldn't start the year hoping to get a team to be a certain level. They might create the team as a lower level and level-up or go coed to all-girl or vice versa (which is not lowering levels, IMO.) I haven't seen them level a team down, mid-season, because they couldn't hack it in the division.

 

[BubbleToes]

Both very good points, but if you paying $7000 plus for your commitment, what about theirs?

I wonder how many level 5 athletes on her would truly be okay and hang all season with the team if they were told today they would compete 4 all 2011-2012 season with no chance of going to Worlds.