All-Star Let's Discuss Worlds Scoring

[King]

Please watch ALL of the videos Les put out about the scoring system before commenting. It will explain why scores were different from day to day.


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Which I will say the Worlds scoring worked exactly as intended. I don't think that was the issue. It was a perfectly executed flawed system.

 

[Mamarazzi]

Is there anyone that's willing to watch a particular team's video from this weekend and let me know what they would score the routine, based on the Worlds scoresheet?

 

[yojaehs]

Is there anyone that's willing to watch a particular team's video from this weekend and let me know what they would score the routine, based on the Worlds scoresheet?

It's very difficult to do that bc Worlds scores are based off of the rest of the teams in the div


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[BlueCat]

Is there anyone that's willing to watch a particular team's video from this weekend and let me know what they would score the routine, based on the Worlds scoresheet?

Theoretically, you can't really score a single routine by itself on the Worlds scoresheet. The scoring concept is completely different for Worlds than it is for any event during the season. (Name any other sport that does that.)

My issue isn't even with the results per se, it is with the lack of feedback and direction the system gives the coaches. Example: You pyramid score represents how strong your pyramid was compared to other teams in your division. However, you don't get to know what any other team in your division actually scored in pyramids. Incredibly frustrating.

 

[King]

Is there anyone that's willing to watch a particular team's video from this weekend and let me know what they would score the routine, based on the Worlds scoresheet?

A team only scores what it did based on how difficult their competitions routines were.

In theory a the same routine performed this season and next season with the Varsity rubric will score the exact same if the execution is the same. Granted perfectly exact same is not possible for a team, but you get the idea. The scores would be near eachother.

At Worlds the winning routine competed could have drastically different scores based on what was around them. For example Wildcats score was I think the highest of the competition. That does not mean Wildcats performed the hardest routine with the best execution at the competition. It more means they had the greatest difference between them and what other programs put on the floor. I think IOC 5 had also some of the lowest scores.

This in no way is taking away from the performance Wildcats did, mind you. It's just saying at Worlds you don't win by having the hardest routine, but by having a routine the judges think is harder than your competition.


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[ACEDAD]

Edit: Oh and why are we competing 2 days if none of the score carries over? I can see the purpose behind doing it for the IO divisions but if your not going to carry over a percentage than just compete one day and be done with it!

The 2 day comps reward consistency, but Worlds rewards excellence.

It's not dissimilar to a team doing well in the season but catching fire in the playoffs.

I like it because there's pressure every day.

 

[King]

The 2 day comps reward consistency, but Worlds rewards excellence.

It's not dissimilar to a team doing well in the season but catching fire in the playoffs.

I like it because there's pressure every day.

I do like the qualifying and taking top 10. But that is not the scoresheet. That's more just te gauntlet teams run.


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[ACEDAD]

So the scoring this weekend is a large departure from what is used all season. The good news is there is a large top end to allow more clear separation for teams. The bad news is the scoring is completely comparative based. What does that mean? When scoring a judge has to predict if what they are looking at is at the top level or not. If it is at the top the judge will put the score closer to the limit, but if they believe that the team they are looking at is not near the top they will leave room for higher scoring later.

Will the new glitter mod use a rubric? Or will I need to wait till the end of each week to determine if I'm rewarding the most glitterific post?

 

[ACEDAD]

I do like the qualifying and taking top 10. But that is not the scoresheet. That's more just te gauntlet teams run.


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I was just speaking to the difference of taking a two day average v. using a new score each day.

 

[cheerinatorXdad]

So the scoring this weekend is a large departure from what is used all season. The good news is there is a large top end to allow more clear separation for teams. The bad news is the scoring is completely comparative based. What does that mean? When scoring a judge has to predict if what they are looking at is at the top level or not. If it is at the top the judge will put the score closer to the limit, but if they believe that the team they are looking at is not near the top they will leave room for higher scoring later.

There are a couple issues with this.

1. Team name does play into bias of what is considered difficult and what not. If a judge knows a harder team is coming later even if the team in front of them is fantastic they will leave room for what is coming later in CASE it is better. PS - if your ball gets pulled #1 during the lottery it is almost not even worth going to Worlds because of this.

2. Judges are human and susceptible to the recency effect ( Serial position effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Whatever they see happening before or after a team affects that preceding teams score. See a bunch of low scoring routines in a row and then just a decent team will have an elevated score. This is reason we see rubrics and divisions split at other competitions. The smaller amount of teams a judge has to be concerned with the lower this effect.

3. Nothing can be learned from what won at Worlds this year to plan for next year. Because all scoring is strictly situational no coach can look at what was done to win and say next year I see our weak points and we will improve on them to have a better chance.

4. Difficulty and Execution scores are defined that day arbitrarily in a judges head depending on how well the judge interprets the intentions of the writer of the scoresheet.

These deserve the ever illusive, mega-shimmy!

 

[King]

Will the new glitter mod use a rubric? Or will I need to wait till the end of each week to determine if I'm rewarding the most glitterific post?

You can do either. If you feel your goal is to give glitter to the single post in a week that determines it the most then I would wait until the end of the week.


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[ACEDAD]

You can do either. If you feel your goal is to give glitter to the single post in a week that determines it the most then I would wait until the end of the week.


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I hate when I'm a smarta$$ and you're serious.

 

[King]

I hate when I'm a smarta$$ and you're serious.

Andre does that crap to me all the time! I learned from him.


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[hopskipandjump]

In my humble opinion I never realized just how ridiculous the Worlds scoring system is until King explained it. I am truly baffled.


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[quitthedrama]

A team only scores what it did based on how difficult their competitions routines were.

In theory a the same routine performed this season and next season with the Varsity rubric will score the exact same if the execution is the same. Granted perfectly exact same is not possible for a team, but you get the idea. The scores would be near eachother.

At Worlds the winning routine competed could have drastically different scores based on what was around them. For example Wildcats score was I think the highest of the competition. That does not mean Wildcats performed the hardest routine with the best execution at the competition. It more means they had the greatest difference between them and what other programs put on the floor. I think IOC 5 had also some of the lowest scores.

This in no way is taking away from the performance Wildcats did, mind you. It's just saying at Worlds you don't win by having the hardest routine, but by having a routine the judges think is harder than your competition.


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And this is where I think the problem lies. You can either get killed or rewarded depending on where you are in the OOA. Results should never depend on a flipping bingo ball, and in the large divisions such as small coed and small senior semi-finals, this is exactly what happened. I don't like it, but I think the concept works much better for finals, but it is a fail for prelims and semis - you can't score team 3 effectively if you have 35 teams left to score.