All-Star Level5 Tumbling Rule Changes

[GreatWhite92]

Keep seeing "boring" thrown around. Is a Front Handspring Front 1.5 Whip Hand Double boring?

that sounds more injury prone to what we had before. Lets do it. Slap in the face usasf. everyones getting hurt trying to do front doubles.

 

[FierceJedi]

Not really. Front tumbling requires more sound technique. Which IMO is why we see so little of it.

 

[cupieqt]

Not really. Front tumbling requires more sound technique. Which IMO is why we see so little of it.

Are you related to tumbleyoda ? Just wondering.
And I think great white was saying we will see more injuries with the front tumbling bc the requirements are so different. We train backward skills so much that switching to forward will more than likely see a rise in injuries from kids that aren't properly trained and attempting things they aren't ready for.
Those blind landings can be super tricky for those without developed air awareness.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Everyone is freaking out over these rule changes but I really don't think it affects that many level 5 athletes. For everyone complaining, I have a challenge for you.

- count the number of standing fulls at worlds
- count the number of standing doubles at worlds
- count the number of standing passes ending in doubles
- count the number of doubles that dont have a back handspring before them
- count the number of running tumbling passes involving twisting bounding skills

Next count the total number of athletes at worlds.

I am willing to bet that standing tumbling changes affect about 15-20% of all level 5 athletes. Running tumbling changes probably affect 19% or less of all level 5 athletes.

Now think to yourself that level 5 athletes comprise less than 25% of the total number of allstar cheerleaders.

After reading all of that, do you still think these rule changes will have that much of an impact? The answer should be no.

Besides the benefits of athlete safety, this also greatly levels out the playing field. Many teams can stunt like the big dogs, but who can really hang with them in tumbling?

So you're saying just bc someone can't "hang" in one area of the score sheet, it should be watered down and made easier for the benefit of teams w/o those skills and/or who don't focus on that aspect of the score sheet? Since when does promoting making it "easier" for other teams to be on top w/o them having to earn and/or work hard for those skills ok? There's a reason there are differences between regular athletes and elite athletes. Elite athletes in ANY sport push themselves past their own limits and work harder to be in that position. Everyone can't all be the "Best" I'm sorry, but that's the truth. They can be their own personal best and that's fine, but it's ridiculous to expect those whose personal best is better than yours to "slow down" so the others might have a chance to win. Seriously..think about that

 

[xtremeteal4life]

Isn't the whole point of the word 'competition' to reward those that can excel beyond 'average'? If everyone only had average skills, there would be no competition, just a show.

Thank you for saying what I said in much simpler terms! I had not made it to the second page yet before my post..lol

 

[tumbleyoda]

Are you related to tumbleyoda ? Just wondering.
And I think great white was saying we will see more injuries with the front tumbling bc the requirements are so different. We train backward skills so much that switching to forward will more than likely see a rise in injuries from kids that aren't properly trained and attempting things they aren't ready for.
Those blind landings can be super tricky for those without developed air awareness.

No relation that I am aware of but they are correct.

We spend considerable time doing both. I make sure that in all of our tumbling classes at least one day out of each month focuses solely on front tumbling for every level. Teaching the spatial awareness is critical for front tumbling, as you said because of the blind landings. Too easy to lock a leg and mess a knee or ankle up if you don't take the time to teach them properly. Technically we push in the tumbling classes but we are very conservative over what the athletes are allowed to put in a routine. We don't worry about the wow factor that many of the younger coaches and athletes rave about, even though if we let them loose they can do some pretty good stuff. Although if these rules hold up they wont be able to do some of the things, we def got a few other tumbling tricks in process.

 

[AZCheerMom]

Keep seeing "boring" thrown around. Is a Front Handspring Front 1.5 Whip Hand Double boring?

The rule states no conected bounding and twisting skills so wouldn't that make the twist then whip not allowed as well?

 

[xtremeteal4life]

So, double backs should be legal because someone can do it?

So jumps to tuck should be legal just bc someone can do it...or kick doubles, or scorpions, etc.? It's not as if there are only a handful of people who currently have skills like standing fulls..However, most of them might be at one of the larger gyms in the country..but F5 had almost entire squad standing fulls. Progression happens...

 

[yojaehs]

Keep seeing "boring" thrown around. Is a Front Handspring Front 1.5 Whip Hand Double boring?

Compared to full punch arabian robhs dub dub, yes.

 

[xtremeteal4life]

I think my statement was taken out of context without the original post, which was very specific as to what was 'average' vs. above average.

But actually, my answer to your question might still be "yes", at some point. If the double back skill is developed to an extent that the technique is solid and the risk is reduced in relationship to that, who's to say someday that should not be acceptable? At some point in the past, a double probably looked too risky to many people. But the strongest athletes continued to evolve and grow their skills to the point where that could be safely executed - and then continued far beyond. Why should we set limits if there is a chance those skills can be safely achieved?

IMO the skills that are allowed need to be controlled by measuring and evaluating the technique behind them, not the skill itself.

Right..flying can be incredibly dangerous as well (as well as basing!), but once something becomes the norm and proper technique is developed..what's the problem? Once upon a time kick doubles didn't exist either..in addition to a large majority of the skills now present in allstar

 

[Seeker30]

i think this is going to help towrds being a sport.

 

[cheermommaRN]

What would be beneficial in this situation is a program similiar to the TOPS program in gymnastics. The small gyms that have elite young talent get invited to a "camp" where the coaches are taught and credentialed to keep up with their elite kids. In TOPS kids compete in drill like exercises and the ones that qualify get invited to the Karolyi ranch for National training, their coaches come also and lean how to up train their athletes safely.
I had mentioned this in the other thread but at this point I would rather USA Gymnastics take over all star, rename it and start credentialing coaches and gyms. This might end up with us having levels 1-10 but in the long run the injuries will be down, skills will be higher, and we will actually be covered by a legitimate organization instead of the dog and pony show we have in USASF right now.

 

[cupieqt]

No relation that I am aware of but they are correct.

We spend considerable time doing both. I make sure that in all of our tumbling classes at least one day out of each month focuses solely on front tumbling for every level. Teaching the spatial awareness is critical for front tumbling, as you said because of the blind landings. Too easy to lock a leg and mess a knee or ankle up if you don't take the time to teach them properly. Technically we push in the tumbling classes but we are very conservative over what the athletes are allowed to put in a routine. We don't worry about the wow factor that many of the younger coaches and athletes rave about, even though if we let them loose they can do some pretty good stuff. Although if these rules hold up they wont be able to do some of the things, we def got a few other tumbling tricks in process.

Agreed!! I don't see creativity dwindling at all. It's actually a shot in the arm to change things up a bit. We work our forward tumbling daily too (thank God for good gymnastics and tumbling coaches) when it used to be (and still is at many cheer gyms) an afterthought.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

Analogy.....

If we got into an accident and my arm was gushing blood, would you apply pressure, or just wait for us to get to a hospital to get it taken care of?

Well the USASF, and probably people they hired to do studies about injuries, decided this is a big enough problem. I can guarantee that the USASF knows the issue is qualified instructors. So what they did was first nip the skills in the butt that are the results of the problem. Now this gives them time to work and fix the root of the problem without being worried about more injuries. I believe that one day these skills will all be back. It will take time to create a good system to make this a better environment for the athletes.

 

[mia4life06]

Everyone is freaking out over these rule changes but I really don't think it affects that many level 5 athletes. For everyone complaining, I have a challenge for you.

- count the number of standing fulls at worlds
- count the number of standing doubles at worlds
- count the number of standing passes ending in doubles
- count the number of doubles that dont have a back handspring before them
- count the number of running tumbling passes involving twisting bounding skills

Next count the total number of athletes at worlds.

I am willing to bet that standing tumbling changes affect about 15-20% of all level 5 athletes. Running tumbling changes probably affect 19% or less of all level 5 athletes.

Now think to yourself that level 5 athletes comprise less than 25% of the total number of allstar cheerleaders.

After reading all of that, do you still think these rule changes will have that much of an impact? The answer should be no.

Besides the benefits of athlete safety, this also greatly levels out the playing field. Many teams can stunt like the big dogs, but who can really hang with them in tumbling?

lol the whole point of all star cheerleading is to set yourself apart from everyone else not to be the same and as far as the skills if you don't have some of these skill or are not working them at less you mostly shouldn't be on a level 5 or your not a true level athlete and to even max out on score you at lease need about 4 to 5 double in small senior standing and running and tumbling set teams apart and thats messing with some teams strengthen just like some are better at stunting and not tumbling