All-Star My Issue With Comparative Scoring

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King

Is all about that bass
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FBOD:LLFB
Dec 4, 2009
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So here is why I am not a fan of comparative scoring.

Your working memory can only hold 5-9 objects. That means instance of things that you can remember is limited to 9. That isn't teams, that is objects. Stunting might be an object. But stunting sequence individual pieces and falls might be 2-3 objects spent on one team. If you are judging a team you could 'spend' 4-5 objects on just one team. When you are just comparing 2 teams this works well. You can accurately judge, to a point, those two teams and compare all those objects. But once you move onto the third team you could be talking about 15 objects. You are now having to work from notes and your short term memory. The most accurate memory you have is your working memory. Short term will be less accurate and subject to embellishment. This can be up or down in terms of what happened and how you felt about the routine. If you had a positive feeling the scores would be higher and negative feeling the scores would be lower. And this is only after THREE TEAMS. Now we add in the recency effect and the primacy effect. Recency means whatever were the last few teams you have watched will effect how the next team is scored. If you follow three bad performances you will get scored higher than you would have otherwise. Three good, lower than you would have otherwise. That doesn't mean you will score high or lower, it means your score will have a bump up or down depending. So where you go in a lineup has a huge factor on your scoring. Who you go after will pretty much determine what type of score your routine will get. And the more teams in your division the less accurate your score can be. For fun I spent an hour talking with a psychology major on why this is a bad set of scoring. She pretty much said it was awful.
 
So how are we to fix this? I was watching "Why Cheerleading Sucks" (a YouTube podcast), and these two cheer coaches were talking about how at small comps, there are 5-6 judges for a team, which could be 20 kids, but in gymnastics there are 3 judges watching a single performer on a single event.

Maybe we could seat four sets of judges around the mats, so that they can see everything? That might still be difficult, because you can't see someone's face standing behind them, but still.
 
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So how are we to fix this? I was watching "Why Cheerleading Sucks" (a YouTube podcast), and these two cheer coaches were talking about how at small comps, there are 5-6 judges for a team, which could be 20 kids, but in gymnastics there are 3 judges watching a single performer on a single event.

You have to separate out skills (which needs to be more objective) and performance / execution / creativity (which is more subjective).

You can only score performance / execution / creativity live. You score these based on a distribution score. .5 is average execution .... .9 is better than average. Creativity would be the same. .5 is average creativity. .9 is a high level of creativity.

Difficulty has to be a rubric. The current issue with how things are done is people feel there is too little separation between amazing and mediocre teams. Thats just a matter of creating better bracket levels and offering a bigger division between the two. Difficulty in cheer is exponential NOT a flat line. The lower bracket of stunting for this past year you could get a lower .3, middle level skills .4-.7, and higher level .8-.0. Difficulty can always be re-scored.
 
This was brought up in the new scoresheet thread. I think everyone agrees completely except for those who are in charge of creating the scoresheets and judging policies. How do we change the system?

Proud supporter of the IBFC since 1997
 
Yes. This is why coaches be like

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When they look at the performance orders for certain comps and realize that they're first.
 
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This was brought up in the new scoresheet thread. I think everyone agrees completely except for those who are in charge of creating the scoresheets and judging policies. How do we change the system?

Proud supporter of the IBFC since 1997

So everyone working on this scoresheet is working very hard and is working on the same goal: the best scoresheet that produces the best results. We just have disagreements on how to get there :).

Keep thinking, keep talking, bring up short comings, and keep records of every event this year and scoring.
 
This all comes down to how much a lot of us respect our own sport. EPs hiring untrained judges (and the absence of a standard judges' training system/course to prepare judges to score teams based on a TRULY UNIVERSAL scoresheet on which all EPs can agree).
 
there are still issues with comparative scoring with the difficulty ranges. several times last year, teams competing on a comparative sheet were doing 1.25 and 1.5's and scoring the same in difficulty as teams doing squad double ups. and although it is comparative scoring, they don't want you to bring up another team when you're debating your ranges. it really needs to be more specific so teams are rewarded for their difficulty. i feel way too often we try to use the "well they were way cleaner" argument which is fine. however a lot of times, the other teams performed the skills with same amount of execution and still scoring the same as the "cleaner" team. it's frustrating when you stress to your athletes about execution and difficulty, they deliver on their end, and then get screwed in the end because of either the judge or the score sheet.
 
The score sheet needs to make the difficulty risk worth the reward of hitting. Otherwise, no one will risk pushing the limits. There is something to be said for a good, super clean routine, but a clean routine with extra difficulty has to be rewarded.
 
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The score sheet needs to make the difficulty risk worth the reward of hitting. Otherwise, no one will risk pushing the limits. There is something to be said for a good, super clean routine, but a clean routine with extra difficulty has to be rewarded.

Difficulty needs to be compounded.
 
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