All-Star Only Seniors Can Expose Midriff???

[Mom2Cheergirls]

I agree with you, Coach Troy that USASF would be better off with a voting board of delegates or representatives such as Ice Skating has based on club membership size etc... that not only includes gym owners but parents and older cheerleaders as well.

The problem is that is not how it is set up - so then my focus becomes how in the parameters of its operation did USASF solve an issue of a small subset of gyms that rather than enhancing the sport are detracting from it and making choices regarding young children that are beyond normal societies reason and even in the view of many observers that are used to this sport. You have consistently said there should be no limit on length of crop tops and unfortunately there are gyms that don't use the common sense you talk about and have girls doing moves and dressed in ways that are outrageous with the goal to be the most outrageous. Instead of giving length requirements for tops USASF made the decision to do the Senior only crop - to keep teams from trying to buck the rule beat it by millimeters (yes there are gyms out there like this - and it will be interesting to see what they try to do with full tops). Does this penalize gyms that make reasonable choices yes but it also prevents team A contesting an event stating Team Bs top is 1/2 inch shorter than the length requirement. So I get why USASF did what they did, and I am glad that they are trying to get this subset reigned in.
I can fully see your point I get that you didn't get a choice and the uniforms that you have used are not bad or effect your athletes ability to do their sport. But you don't get mine. The easy answer is just to say we are being the moral police because heaven forbid you actually take a long hard look at what is out there posing as All Star Cheer. It is easier you to think of how it affects your gym and not really look and examine why perhaps these rules are being put into place... every time one of us says if you had seen this or that at the comp I was at - your response is what type of comps are you going to? Or you have said that free choice and commerce should reign - never mind for the CP that wants to cheer and her only option is a gym with a uniform she feels totally uncomfortable in.

 

[Coach Troy]

I am sorry but at the end of the day I am just so upset at the gal of the usasf!!!
I don't want your image!! I don't need your image to grow!! Your image is discrimatory and self-righteous!! For goodness sake Varsity just had girls parading around a hotel in spanks and sports bras and then have the audacity to say we have an "image" problem!!! What Hippocrates !!!

These are my two wishes...
The image campaign dies a fast death!!
If not I hope a new governing body comes about so I have a choice!!!

 

[CheerBank]

One of the biggest problems I have with the crop top for seniors only rule is that the same year the USASF decided to announce this one they also lowered the age of senior teams levels 1-4 to 10. So basically you could have a 15 year old junior only allowed to wear a full top and a 10 year old senior wearing a crop top. It makes no sense to me at all!

 

[Coach Troy]

None of it makes sense
They said at the meeting we needed to do this for the dad that didn't want his daughter wearing cheer uniforms!!??
Seriously that is a dad that has no boys and wants his daughter to do a sport he understands like soccer, softball, etc.
This is all such bull!!! After our regional meeting I am more upset then ever!!! Usasf = stupid!!

 

[Mom2Cheergirls]

I am sorry but at the end of the day I am just so upset at the gal of the usasf!!!
I don't want your image!! I don't need your image to grow!! Your image is discrimatory and self-righteous!! For goodness sake Varsity just had girls parading around a hotel in spanks and sports bras and then have the audacity to say we have an "image" problem!!! What Hippocrates !!!

These are my two wishes...
The image campaign dies a fast death!!
If not I hope a new governing body comes about so I have a choice!!!

You know it is really sad that you do not have the ability to look at the other side of an issue. Again all you are is I, I, I talk about self righteous how about self centered. You have a choice don't be a member of USASF and take your gym to non sanctioned comps or only take seniors to sanctioned comps.

 

[Coach Troy]

I have more choices then that

 

[cupieqt]

Coach Troy I've been following the back and forth on this thread and I just can't take you seriously. You are very flippant toward anyone that isn't in total agreement with you (especially Mom2Cheergirls ). Your arguments against the image ruling are pretty thin and you haven't given one example that made me view your point in a positive light. You come off like a petulant 15 year old girl that can't get her way and hates her parents for being "like, so strict and stuff".
If you want things to change, ranting about it here and arguing with a cheer mom isn't going to make it happen. Quit whining about it. Do some research and actually work to change it in a professional and adult manner.

 

[Coach Troy]

Ok

 

[Coach Troy]

Ok
But I fail to see how you think that my arguments are thin or flippant while the rationale for the rule is based on such reactionary thinking and trying to please this imaginary customer ??
It is a rule that is not even going to be followed through with a penalty. It is an "image" the the largest company in our industry dosent even portay on a daily basis. It is a rule that will not change the "image" of less skin where it counts at the gym level. Those "dads" we want to apease will be at a competition what 10 times a year max but they will eneter a training gym 300 days a year and see athletes in sports bras and spankies.

I appologize if in the process of my arguing my position if I offended Mom2Cheergirls that was not my intended purpose, but my arguments are neither thin nor without substance they are just Not your views so you don't put as much stock in them as I do.

 

[Mom2Cheergirls]

Coach Troy - you did not offend me. The frustrating thing is that your arguments never have much backing other than they upset you and hurt you and when anyone refutes you do get flippant - like when dawgshow mentioned what he saw at competitions - it makes it hard to even want to try to see your side because you come off as either a chest beating alpha male or a truculent toddler when all you read from you is I, I, I, I me, me, me. It is hard to have an adult conversation where both parties at least attempt to see the views of the other party - as soon as someone doesn't agree with you - you dismiss then or pigeon hole them into being "ultra conservatives trying to push their righteous message".
Your very first response was how this hurt your business and while I can see and agree with your frustration (some gyms by the way do not allow their athletes to practice in spankies and bras). Then you tried to say they didn't have the right -- well even though I have agreed the governing body is not set up with a high representative level (which I also feel it should be) it is what it is and innately has the right to make the rules because that is what a governing body is it does not mean it is a democracy where everyone gets a vote.
The irony is that throughout this you think I don't put stock into your views but I have taken the time and energy to look at your program, to read your responses and think about what you say (even if I then refute it - that is part of debate), to look at how this and other governing boards have been set up to try to find out what boundaries or compromises you see as possible. You call me the one with the righteous agenda but you have this all or none mentality that centers around yourself and your gym. You ignore half the questions anyone asks you and pass them off with flippant responses. You are unwilling to even examine the other side and it really creates the impression that you really don't want a democracy - you just want it your way and everyone else be damn.

I get you were at the regional meeting an being in the middle of it there makes your blood boil about this issue and then getting it on this side as well - but as an adult trying to have an open debate it is INCREDIBLY frustrating talking to someone who is a gym owner and so involved in the industry that they can not take a step back and say okay let me see what is out there and try to see things from another perspective it does not mean you need to agree with me to understand me.

Personally I don't need you to understand me or agree with me, and I have welcomed this debate with you because it has helped me shape my opinion further. I am glad for the time I put in trying to understand another perspective even if I did not agree with it. I still am happy with full tops on my kids but I can understand better how a gym that has reasonable crop tops would be incredibly frustrated, and at the same time I can understand why USASF went to this extreme. I get that you feel disenfranchised but it is hard to have empathy for you when you are so self centered about this. Many others (I have seen even those who don't agree with the outcome of the image policy and like crop tops state that some gyms just take it too the extreme) feel some changes need to be made regarding the image policy. Even if we don't all agree on what that change should be - the fact that you seem to have these rose colored glasses and say you have never seen a uniform too small and no boundaries should be set simply does not help your argument -- and in the end you always bring it back to you and what you like and how it effect you.

 

[cupieqt]

I never said what side of the fence I was on about this whole thing. I just told you why I didn't think your arguments were working. Don't assume that I like or dislike the rule.

 

[Coach Troy]

Wait I have answered every question you have asked , you did not like any of the answers but you cannot say I haven't provided the details of my arguments.
I stated my position very clearly with all of my arguments. Uniform is just the beginning that is what I fear because the argument to do this is baised on the changing opinions of a few. And if we are going to try and grow by endevoring to please every detractor this time it's the uniform next this outside dad we are trying to please will not like the loud music, or any host of external meaningless "image" concerns.
Yep your right Mom2Cheergirls we have come to the end of the road on this debate I wish you and your cheerleaders all the best.

 

[cheercurl]

I still think a few stern deductions for inappropriate uniforms would have worked just as well as a ban. Because truthfully 95% of the gyms are having their kids wear appropriate crop tops. Banning for a small group who made poor choices feels really harsh for the gyms who have always made good choices.

A rule that said something more in line with the "no inappropriate music" or there will be severe deductions. If you are questioning whether a piece of music is inappropriate don't use it because it probably is.

Uniform rule: No inappropriate or revealing uniforms or you will incur severe deductions. If you are questioning whether a crop top is to revealing or inappropriate it probably is. The end.

As a coach or a gym I would make sure that no "brand" would be questioning my youth teams crop tops. The end.

Don't you think that might have worked just as well?

 

[SuzyB]

I still think a few stern deductions for inappropriate uniforms would have worked just as well as a ban. Because truthfully 95% of the gyms are having their kids wear appropriate crop tops. Banning for a small group who made poor choices feels really harsh for the gyms who have always made good choices.

A rule that said something more in line with the "no inappropriate music" or there will be severe deductions. If you are questioning whether a piece of music is inappropriate don't use it because it probably is.

Uniform rule: No inappropriate or revealing uniforms or you will incur severe deductions. If you are questioning whether a crop top is to revealing or inappropriate it probably is. The end.

As a coach or a gym I would make sure that no "brand" would be questioning my youth teams crop tops. The end.

Don't you think that might have worked just as well?

Brilliant. Common Sense 101. The end.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I still think a few stern deductions for inappropriate uniforms would have worked just as well as a ban. Because truthfully 95% of the gyms are having their kids wear appropriate crop tops. Banning for a small group who made poor choices feels really harsh for the gyms who have always made good choices.

A rule that said something more in line with the "no inappropriate music" or there will be severe deductions. If you are questioning whether a piece of music is inappropriate don't use it because it probably is.

Uniform rule: No inappropriate or revealing uniforms or you will incur severe deductions. If you are questioning whether a crop top is to revealing or inappropriate it probably is. The end.

As a coach or a gym I would make sure that no "brand" would be questioning my youth teams crop tops. The end.

Don't you think that might have worked just as well?

Todd Whitaker just published a book about this very concept called Shifting the Monkey.

Basically, instead of treating everyone like they're bad (and making the good ones feel bad) you should treat everyone like they're good and make the bad ones uncomfortable. It's a short quick and priceless read.