All-Star Only Seniors Can Expose Midriff???

[Ashley]

cheercurl has it right (if, after all the bickering I'm still understanding what was said). The USASF should've just said, if your uni looks like someone should be singing "boomchickawowowow", its not appropriate and we will deduct or disqualify.

I don't care where you're from, most of us know what is acceptable and not inappropriate. Why do we pretend that that you should be able to do whatever want, wherever you want. Standards and morals people, some of us still have them.

Crops tops aren't bad, what a few teams have done to uniforms, are.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. No, obviously people can't agree on what is acceptable and appropriate. Or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I don't think any gym owner designs a uniform knowing it's inappropriate and decides to go ahead with it anyway because there are no sanctions currently in place.

Case in point - Top Gun's uniforms, look how big of an issue that turned into on this board. As I said in another post, we need clear guidelines or the rules won't get enforced. Event Producers aren't going to give out deductions if it means they're going to have to spend time arguing with gym owners over what is appropriate. And that is absolutely what's going to happen.

So then we're back where we are now. Maybe USASF took it too far, but someone needed to set some guidelines about what, exactly, appropriate means. I think a good place to look for an example would be NCA's college uniform guidelines.

 

[SparkleSpankies]

I wasn't saying that juniors are a higher level, I was saying that the higher levels are more common in the older age divisions. The reason that I find full tops restrictive is because I did not learn to tumble and do allstar cheerleading in them. I did high school basketball cheerleading for 2 years with the full tops and I do not think I performed as well in them. To me the full tops are restrictive, but I could get used to them if I had to, but that is just my opinion.

So you are going to tell me that the long sleeved leotards the gymnasts wear probably restrict them and if we gave them a sports bra and spanks they would do better?

Full tops are not "restrictive". I agree HS uniforms are b/c traditionally they are 3 pieces, but a nice leotard material that most all-star unis are made out of are not restrictive at all.

 

[Ashley]

So you are going to tell me that the long sleeved leotards the gymnasts wear probably restrict them and if we gave them a sports bra and spanks they would do better?

Full tops are not "restrictive". I agree HS uniforms are b/c traditionally they are 3 pieces, but a nice leotard material that most all-star unis are made out of are not restrictive at all.

High School uniforms are also usually that stiff polyester material. All-star uniforms are not.

 

[kristenthegreat]

I'm going to have to disagree with you. No, obviously people can't agree on what is acceptable and appropriate. Or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I don't think any gym owner designs a uniform knowing it's inappropriate and decides to go ahead with it anyway because there are no sanctions currently in place.

Case in point - Top Gun's uniforms, look how big of an issue that turned into on this board. As I said in another post, we need clear guidelines or the rules won't get enforced. Event Producers aren't going to give out deductions if it means they're going to have to spend time arguing with gym owners over what is appropriate. And that is absolutely what's going to happen.

So then we're back where we are now. Maybe USASF took it too far, but someone needed to set some guidelines about what, exactly, appropriate means. I think a good place to look for an example would be NCA's college uniform guidelines.

THIS times 86 billion. If 10 of us in this conversation can't agree, how in the heck are all the gyms in America supposed to figure out what's appropriate and what isn't? Are the comp uni standards more lax in Florida because TG's there and they're from Miami (which is their general reason for lots of things )? Are they more intense in other Southern states because they're super religious?

Let's put it this way: Imagine having to do a uniform check at Cheersport. Or NCA. Or Indy. 700 teams at CS and you want to have X number of people sit there and decide on uniforms? That'd be a NIGHTMARE.

 

[flcheermom]

My opinion only - not aimed at anyone . I don't believe there has ever been any uniform guidelines from the USASF - (I could be wrong, please correct me) - so therefore it was a free for all and uniforms could look anyway a gym wanted, and some of the uniforms got out of control. -any other sport (even though we aren't considered a sport - but you know what I mean) has uniform guidelines. My son's soccer team as simple as it seems -the lettering on the back of their jerseys have to be a certain measurement - and they wear jerseys - they can't just decide to wear tank tops with numbers written in a sharpie on the back because that does not fall under their uniform guidelines. We follow dress codes at work, at school, at church. I am not simply saying I agree with how the uniform policy was put in place - but one was needed. Maybe for crop tops/skirts or shorts - they could have placed measurements first and let the gyms follow those guidelines who still wish to wear gym wide crop tops. I like crop tops, but that may be because that is all I am used to... If there had been a uniform policy from the beginning of all star cheer - I don't think that would have stopped me from having my daughter participate. It would have just been the norm. My opinion probably is not a very popular one, but I personally like a more athletic look - I would be fine with them competing in more athletic looking attire - its a sport, not a fashion show. A bow and a cute outfit is fine - that can be achieved with a lot less than what is going on now.

 

[munchkinmom]

Yup, the full top crowd is back. I'll say it again.

You want crop tops - vote with your dollars and go to EPs that don't play USASF's game. They exist. You want worlds too, have your worlds teams (your Senior crop top legal teams) run the road to worlds with the USASF EPs and the other teams go to the other comps. If enough teams do this, they hurt USASF & its affiliated EPs bottom line. Fees from spectators, concessions & team registration from non-worlds teams helps pay for those worlds paid bids. USASF would need to reconsider based on the vote$ of the majority.

If most teams agree that the image guideline meshes with their company's objectives, they'll continue to send all their teams to EPs events that play with USASF, and the image guidelines stand by the vote$ of the majority.

 

[Coach Troy]

So I was told by Steve Peterson that for every one person that wanted crop tops 20 people wanted full tops....this is such a lie...you only need to look at how many gyms wear a crop top compared to those that wear a full top to see that the overwhelming majority of our industry sees the crop top as the more appropriate uniform of choice for our sport.

So we choose to show our stomach while gymnastics and swimming choose to show the croch and the butt the bottom line is the uniform fits the activity. I just don't understand, those small few that want the full top had every opportunity to wear that if that is thier preference or if that is what thier customer base deemed "appropriate". I was told during that same conversation by a usasf staff person (don't remember her name sorry) that Happy Hooper gained 3 kids "just because they were going to be required to wear a full top". Personally I think that is BS, but even if it is true that is a buisness decision for ACE and why should I have to run my buisness according to his clientele needs??!!

I have been told that "you make no good arguments for crop tops" that is because I am not arguing for any style of uniform I am arguing for choice. My choice is based on my preferance, what I feel is best for my athletes, and my customers sensibilities I don't care what Top Gun, Cheer Athletics, ACE, Georgia, or Sally Joe's Allstars wear because it is none of my buisness.

 

[cheercurl]

Top Gun would never have put a uniform out on the floor like that if they new they risked being penalized. Bright people work at Top Gun...Victor Rosario has been in business many years. Top Gun put out outrageous uniforms because they could, simple as that. Victor being the very smart business savvy person that he is would realize that revealing+outrageous = disqualification. Voile' no more tube tops, no tiny, no craziness and no revealing etc...Any body know if Victor comes on these boards because wouldn't he be the perfect person to ask?

 

[Ashley]

Top Gun would never have put a uniform out on the floor like that if they new they risked being penalized. Bright people work at Top Gun...Victor Rosario has been in business many years. Top Gun put out outrageous uniforms because they could, simple as that. Victor being the very smart business savvy person that he is would realize that revealing+outrageous = disqualification. Voile' no more tube tops, no tiny, no craziness and no revealing etc...Any body know if Victor comes on these boards because wouldn't he be the perfect person to ask?

Top Gun might be an extreme example, but Weezy was all over the threads here defending it as appropriate for Miami. Do you really want to be the Event Producer arguing with Victor about the appropriateness of his uniform?

Here are the uniform guidelines for NCA College. I'm not saying we have to ban crop tops, but at least they have specific rules you can point to. Top Gun, you can't wear that top because Tube tops aren't allowed. Gym ABC, your skirts are too short, they don't cover your girl's boy-short briefs.

Female Cheer Tops
• Standard shell, crop, or midriff top
• No “bra top” style or size tops – material must fall at least one inch below the bra line
• No extremely low cut necklines
• No excessively bare or backless style tops
• Must have solid material around the back
• No “tube tops”
• Must be secured by straps or material over at least one shoulder or around the neck

Female Cheer Skirts
• Must fully cover the hips
• Must completely cover briefs when feet are shoulder width apart AND, in the back, fall at least 1.5 inches below boy-short briefs or 2 inches below standard briefs
• No excessively short or tight skirts
• No ultra low rise waistbands (no lower than 2 inches below navel) when worn in conjunction with a cropped or midriff baring top

 

[cheergirlbrey]

On a side note...The USASF with Bill Presson created a Pareent Action Committee (PAC) over 5 years ago to give parents a voice and now just this year the USASF even offered the PAC a positon on the NAB. As PAC Chairman I am often contacted by the USASF and asked what the parents are saying out there. Even with all these gains and so many parents on this forum demanding input to the USASF, the PAC had less than 10 new people apply to be on the committee this year.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically but just trying to note that there are places for people's voices to be heard in the USASF (including parents) but they aren't always taken.

Best post so far! If as a parent you are really unhappy about the direction of the sport as well as your CP, apply/join PAC, so you're opinions can really matter. Is that not how we explain Student Body Government to our kids? You do something, action may happen! I for one feel my CP being happy within her program is what matters and our last gym had full tops....tops were never a factor in our change nor has it affected her skills.

 

[cheercurl]

Top Gun might be an extreme example, but Weezy was all over the threads here defending it as appropriate for Miami. Do you really want to be the Event Producer arguing with Victor about the appropriateness of his uniform?

Here are the uniform guidelines for NCA College. I'm not saying we have to ban crop tops, but at least they have specific rules you can point to. Top Gun, you can't wear that top because Tube tops aren't allowed. Gym ABC, your skirts are too short, they don't cover your girl's boy-short briefs.

Female Cheer Tops
• Standard shell, crop, or midriff top
• No “bra top” style or size tops – material must fall at least one inch below the bra line
• No extremely low cut necklines
• No excessively bare or backless style tops
• Must have solid material around the back
• No “tube tops”
• Must be secured by straps or material over at least one shoulder or around the neck

Female Cheer Skirts
• Must fully cover the hips
• Must completely cover briefs when feet are shoulder width apart AND, in the back, fall at least 1.5 inches below boy-short briefs or 2 inches below standard briefs
• No excessively short or tight skirts
• No ultra low rise waistbands (no lower than 2 inches below navel) when worn in conjunction with a cropped or midriff baring top

I think the above description is great. It is common sense put into words and no I would not want to be the one arguing with Victor. LOL Right now the "NO Crop Top" rules will not even cover the issue of girls wearing the same skirt they wore three years ago only they are 4 inches taller and a couple pounds bigger umm...issue.

So the above rules basically say: put a uniform out on the floor that no one would have issue with. It's not a ban it's a common sense rule. I LOVE IT! All the gym owners who were making good choices would not have to change a thing. It would put the burden only on gyms that were pushing the limit. Thank you.

 

[ASCheerMan]

So we choose to show our stomach while gymnastics and swimming choose to show the croch and the butt the bottom line is the uniform fits the activity. I just don't understand, those small few that want the full top had every opportunity to wear that if that is thier preference or if that is what thier customer base deemed "appropriate". I was told during that same conversation by a usasf staff person (don't remember her name sorry) that Happy Hooper gained 3 kids "just because they were going to be required to wear a full top". Personally I think that is BS, but even if it is true that is a buisness decision for ACE and why should I have to run my buisness according to his clientele needs??!!

I have been told that "you make no good arguments for crop tops" that is because I am not arguing for any style of uniform I am arguing for choice. My choice is based on my preferance, what I feel is best for my athletes, and my customers sensibilities I don't care what Top Gun, Cheer Athletics, ACE, Georgia, or Sally Joe's Allstars wear because it is none of my buisness.

Actually, it was 4 athletes that Happy gained to his program after the Image Policy was first released. And that isn't BS. Amy's point wasn't that Happy's customers like it, it was that the Image Policy has already been effective in reaching its goal: to grow the market and to attract more athletes to all star cheerleading.
The goal is to make all star cheer more universally appealing. No single resolve from the policy solves the issue, but when they are all put into practice, the change is notable. Crop tops weren't picked on because they are inappropriate (at least it's not my opinion that they are inappropriate). They were just the easiest target when looking for a standard uniform piece to regulate.
I think where we don't see eye to eye is on the position of choice. You feel like your choice to wear crop tops were taken away. And I see it as there are still plenty of choices when selecting a uniform, even if crop top designs for Juniors, Youth, Minis, and Tiny's are out of the equation. I respect you and the points you've made. And more than anything else, I appreciate your passion.

 

[CharlotteASMom]

Don't feel picked on in the least, and welcome the information. Thank you for taking that very important role. My concern was that there seemed to be a lot of gym owners that felt unrepresented and while I agree that they should have a stronger body of representation I think on equally footing with that should be a group of dedicated parents and older cheerleaders. I actually appreciate the information you shared.. but curious how did USASF go about informing parents of this opportunity? Did they put a message out to fierce board, have information at competitions, or strictly on their site and Facebook page? (I am genuinely interested in how they get it out there not trying to sound snarky just trying to think of ways they may have reached a larger audience) I think it is great that they have the PAC but wonder what steps they do to get the word out. It would be great if they had their member gyms place flyers or posters up in their parent information areas - perhaps they do and our gym doesn't put them out. Good question for our owner.

The parents on the PAC handle all the publicity and we posted the recrutiment here on Fierceboard (Cheer Parents Online Section), on Twitter, and on our PAC Facebook page.

 

[UEAcheerchick]

It's a freaking uniform. Whether its a crop top or a full length uniform, it is still the same sport.

Honestly. It's a uniform that you wear maybe 8 or 10 times Max in a season. It's not that big a deal!

 

[ASCheerMan]

Female Cheer Tops
• Standard shell, crop, or midriff top
• No “bra top” style or size tops – material must fall at least one inch below the bra line
• No extremely low cut necklines
• No excessively bare or backless style tops
• Must have solid material around the back
• No “tube tops”
• Must be secured by straps or material over at least one shoulder or around the neck

Female Cheer Skirts
• Must fully cover the hips
• Must completely cover briefs when feet are shoulder width apart AND, in the back, fall at least 1.5 inches below boy-short briefs or 2 inches below standard briefs
• No excessively short or tight skirts
• No ultra low rise waistbands (no lower than 2 inches below navel) when worn in conjunction with a cropped or midriff baring top

Actually, this is the document we started with when writing out the Policy. We changed away from the bullet format and added, edited, and deleted points, but if you look closely, some of points you listed are still verbatim what is included in the policy.