Pop Warner

[yellow laces]

Hi everyone, I am new here. My questions are for those who are involved in Pop Warner. This is my 7 yr old daughter's first year cheering, but it is not what it used to be. I suspect there is a lot of rule breaking going on, but I am unable to get access to a 2016 rule book. I have tried to request the rule book or password from our organization, but no one authorized to give it to me will speak to me.

I know Pop Warner has rules that limit practice time each day, but does anyone know if that applies to practice and games on the same day? My daughter is a Tiny mite(5-7yr olds) so her games are at 8:30am Sunday mornings. But then the team has practice scheduled at 12:00noon until 2:00 that same day. Which means if we have an away game, there is basically just enough time to drive home, change and meet at the cheer facility. Considering one of our other practice times is 7:00-9pm on Friday, this is a bit exhausting for 5-7 year olds.

Another major concern of the rules, I see is old rule book editions a coaching rule that there needs to be one adult coach to every 12 cheerleaders. We have 30 girls with one head coach, one team Mom, and one student helper, who is maybe 14-15.

Fitting uniforms is also an issue, these uniform were new in the middle of last year season, but every single girl was given a skirt that is too tight on the waist. My daughter's isn't even as bad as others and she says it hurts her and left marks around her torso. Pretty much all the girls complained the entire game that their skirts are hurting them. The organizer insisted when she handed them out that they needed to be this tight, and has ignored all contact from parents and coaches on the matter since.

There are lots of other things like mandatory purchases including overpriced hair bows and spanks not being in yet, games started today. Last season the mandatory $75 warm ups never arrived until the final competition and some girls who paid for them still never received them from last year. If course, this year's aren't in either. Our registration fees were double all the other local Pop warner cheer teams' fees, then another 4+ poorly run fundraisers, I got raffle tickets from Last YEAR to try to sell, took weeks for someone to listen and give me the right ones. There is a ton of other questionable stuff. Honestly, I would have quit the first week when they handed us a sheet outlining $175 in mandatory purchases if I had not already shelled out more than that for a non refundable registration fee.

I am told a group of parents went to Pop Warner with their concerns about similar issues, but since it is handled locally and the regional association's lead person is our coordinator's mother, she just defended everything our local organization was doing.

So, I am trying to get a list of clear rule violations before I try to go over league's head on things.

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[cheermomforever]

It has been many years since we have participated in Pop Warner but never had a practice on the weekend! Once school started it was 2/3 times
a week. As for fundraising check with other teams to see if they r doing the same.


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[Cheer Dad]

Fundraising is up to each program. The idea is to help offset operating expenses and keep registration low. Sounds like your organization has high operating expenses or is greedy.


This is from 2014 but I don't think much has changed.

http://files.leagueathletics.com/Images/Club/14311/2014_Rule_Book.pdf


Before Labor Day you can practice up to 2-1/2 hrs a day for s max of 10 per week and after Labor Day it is up to 2 hrs/day and 6 hrs max per week.




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[yellow laces]

Thanks for the responses. It isn't really the fundraising I am mostly concerned about, it is the two hour practice 1.5 hours after a game. And the # of coaches for so many little girls.

Cheer dad, I don't see a PM

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[Cheer Dad]

Thanks for the responses. It isn't really the fundraising I am mostly concerned about, it is the two hour practice 1.5 hours after a game. And the # of coaches for so many little girls.

Cheer dad, I don't see a PM

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Sorry that's just my signature line, I didn't really send you a pm.

For the record, you are the first person to respond to it.


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[alexacheer2010]

Thanks for the responses. It isn't really the fundraising I am mostly concerned about, it is the two hour practice 1.5 hours after a game. And the # of coaches for so many little girls.

Cheer dad, I don't see a PM

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One coach per 12 athletes is what I remember.

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[yellow laces]

But what about practice on game day. It limits practice, but says nothing about games. You would think the two hour limit per day would extend to include game time.

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[alexacheer2010]

But what about practice on game day. It limits practice, but says nothing about games. You would think the two hour limit per day would extend to include game time.

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It's not specified in the rules. It's a max of 10 hours of practice per week before Labor Day and 6 per week after.


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[Cheer Dad]

I found nothing regarding game time either.

Because of the connections your program has with the pop warner reps you may need to contact a different area rep for the answers or maybe a different program that is willing to help with what you're looking for.


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[CheerBank]

@yellow laces Sounds like you have quite a few red flags waving. I would be concerned with the additional practice time following a game but even more so with the blatant money mismanagement. $75 for mandatory warmups that were not distributed until the last game of the season is a big fat no in my book. As @Cheer Dad suggested maybe start looking for another organization (for next season if it is too late to change for this one).

 

[Cheer Dad]

@yellow laces, I know pop warner programs can be territorial and you can be limited where you can register based on your physical address so are there any AYC programs or even an all star programs that offer rec teams?


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[quitthedrama]

It sounds like they only practice Friday evenings and Sundays after the game. I don't think this is excessive and it may have been designed to allow the kids and parents to focus on school and work during the week. When my kids did Pop Warner, it was very time consuming and there were times that practices were held after games.
Regarding # of coaches, I am not sure of the exact rule, but if the team mom is present during practices then that is considered part of the coaching staff. Having a demonstrator, coach and team mom present at practices for 30 kids seems like it would be enough supervision if all 3 are diligent and responsible. I've seen cases of 3 "coaches" to 12 kids who are less responsible than a coach and student helper for 20 kids. It is more about how well the coaches are teaching technique and doing things correctly and safely rather than they # of coaches IMO.
Uniforms - sorry, but you don't get custom uniforms rec and school cheer. You make the best of what is on hand. That goes for about 90% of any youth sport. I have had so much trouble fitting kids in to uniforms that I had to use. It's frustrating for the coach, parent and child but there aren't very many options. I've allowed the parent to make alterations at their own expense but they still have to return the uniform.
The financial aspect is a legitimate concern.
The rulebook is password protected, but there is contact information on this site where you could contact someone to ask questions and get clarification.
Rule Book

 

[yellow laces]

Yes, there are several private gym type programs in our area for cheer. I am too deep financially into Pop Warner to just quit now, even though I know there are more fundraisers I will have to buy out and more items to purchase. Plus, my daughter loves it. I cheered Pop Warner through college myself and always loved game day, which is why I wanted Pop Warner over joining a gym. And with our school district, if you have not already been cheering for years, you will never make the school teams. It is all something I will have to think about for the future. She has done gymnastics and dance in the past, we may return to one of those going forward. I was the one who wanted her to try cheer, and she LOVES it way more than she ever did gymnastics or dance alone.

I am amazed at all the things returning parents are saying, yet they came back this year. Not all, there were a couple that walked out with their kids mid game last year from what I hear. They were told the only thing they could wear with the uniform was the purchased warm up, it was 35 degrees and raining at the very last game but the warm ups they paid for never arrived. I have another child with special needs and I learned years ago not to sit back and just complain when things are wrong just because the powers that be tells you it is all OK. That is where I am now with this, I could sit back like the others, complain and let this be our only year. Or I can educate myself and fight to make things right.

Yesterday was our first game, and the $35 bows we had to purchase were not even in yet. Neither were half the team's spanks, including my daughter's. Nor were the all new warm ups that everyone had to purchase all new because of new vendors. There are other things, like boosters has a shop open at practices that sells team apparel, we are over a month in and they have no cheer items because the cheer coordinator never signed off on the purchase to stock them. That leaves the question, is it really the vendors who are not coming through? The uniforms were new middle of last season, yet not a single girl has one that fits properly and they are coming apart at the seams. I guess they made a big stink the last few years with extra fund raising to get these new uniforms. Which, having cheered myself I totally understand, BUT I looked up the uniforms online and it appears each one costs about $80 with the lettering! Half the cost of the registration fee alone would pay for a single uniform. Then they also chose pricier items like $55 cheer shoes, which the girls are not even allowed to wear to games or outside. Only to competition, which if we were a gym team would make sense but not Pop Warner.

At this point, I am hoping to find rules that are flat out being broken to get the attention of someone higher than the local association then hopefully get them to look into the overall working of the team. One of the parents was so fed up, he joined the board. His wife says he leaves the meetings even more confused about what is going on than before.

Our coach has asked, but has never been provided with a first aid kit, she is carrying around and replenishing her own kit for the girls.

The team rents a store front at a local car dealership that used to be a shopping mall. All after labor day practices are to be held at the dealership which dictates the practice schedule. Our team also rents out the space out to other groups for things like karate. This is how we end up with our practice times, we got 7-9 Friday night, 12-2 Sunday after games and 5-6:25 Monday evenings. Personally, I don't see the need for a Tiny Mite Pop Warner team to practice on spring mats 5.5 hours a week, but whatever. It is the times that are troubling. And the lack of coaching staff for so many girls at a private facility where parents are not allowed. Parents have to wait at a different location, on a different floor of the building.

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[yellow laces]

Quitthedrama- I agree with you that uniforms are not going to be custom fit, I cheered myself for 10 years, I get that you only have what you have. But here is the issue. These skirts aren't just uncomfortable, but they are painful on many of the girls. Some of the girls have skirts so tight they ride up over their butt cheeks when they move. One or two didn't cover their butt even after they pulled them back down. Plus, the spanks aren't even in yet to go under the skirts even though games have started. The girls pretty much complained the entire first game that they were in pain from the skirts. They are fitted Lycra skirts with a thick elastic band which is much smaller than the skirt portion. There is no way to alter these to make them bigger. But the real kicker, I looked on Alleson.com and found the skirt. It is a $22 skirt!!! Parents were required to purchase $35 in hair bows and $55 sneakers for competition only. The warm ups parents are supposed to purchase cost more than these uniforms. Surely, we could figure out how to get enough $22 skirts so the girls are not in pain and their 5 year old rear end is covered. The organizer is ignoring all the coaches and parents concerning the skirt issue. I know you can't just go to the store and pick up 10 more matching skirts, dyes may vary on a new order. But something needs to be figured out. Honestly, some of us wonder if the elastic bands are in some way defective. But the seams are coming apart all over the uniform, even though they were only worn 3 or 4 times last season. Maybe because they are too tight on every one? Something that needs to be worked out. But, the uniforms are only a drop in the bucket compared to other things.



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[Cheer Dad]

Good news, now that Labor Day is here your practice times should be 6-8 now. Still kind of late for a 5-7 yo group but much better than 7-9. With them not utilizing other locations such as local school gymnasiums it does mean some tough practice times for some teams.

Have thought a bit more and talked to a friend and have a few thoughts on some of the things you mentioned.

Could registration be twice everyone else to help pay for that indoor, storefront location they have and use year round? Since not as many kids are typically in a year round program the traditional cheer season kids will help supplement that cost. Also guessing they pay a lot higher insurance rate for that facility. No parents allowed in the space is for many reasons some of which are no background checks on the parents, insurance liability, lack of space, and parents being a distraction to the kids. you'd be surprised how many parents won't volunteer but still try coaching their kids from the sidelines.

Staff/helpers can change often and even great programs can struggle attracting new and qualified parents to volunteer their time to make these programs run efficiently which can lead to some down and seemingly dysfunctiojnal years. Behind the scenes there are many hours of work being performed which most parents don't even think twice about that can lead to things being overlooked. It does sound like some definite organizational issues are happening and that can be from the volunteers having too much to do without enough assistance.

Game time IS NOT included in the 10 hr and 6 hr practice time rules. Most of your games should be in a pretty reasonable distance so hopefully getting from away games to practice won't be too bad for you on those days.

Unfortunately uniforms are not ordered brand new every year and programs often have to made do with what they can. Too bad your uniform coordinator isnt at least acknowleding the parents concerns.

Coach to athlete ratio is 1 coach to 12 athletes but if you have more kids than volunteers available what do you do? Cut kids? Pay for coaches? Use younger kids to help? Its a tough situation and sometimes you need to pick the lesser of 2 evils for the solution.

Yeah you are in a tough situation with the mom and daughter connection but from hearing past experience anything you try going over both their heads with will most likely be refferred right back to the local Pop Warner governing body so that might be difficult hill to battle. You had better be dead on with anything you bring to them.

As for having cheer experience there is nothing that says all stars won't count towards that experience, it however may not be possible to do both all star and high school cheer at the same time due to coaches rules.

Unless you move you are locked in to that PW program unless you can provide a great reason to be allowed to join a neighboring program and get permission from the regional PW directors.