All-Star Proposed Age Changes For Next Season From Doral.

[INeverStopCheering]

There isn't gonna be a benefit because typically a 5 year old is not gonna have the experience or body control of an 8 year old. And if they do, they deserve the spot on the team, why hold them back if they are successful, mature and able? And only the coach and parent will know that, not some blind across the board age limit.


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That was my point. No one really benefits except the coach who gets to fly a baby. And I feel like for every instance of it being deserved, there are five instances where it wasn't and all that happened was a little girl was put on a team with skills that were out of her league just because that program didn't have another team to offer her.

Leaving it to the coaches discretion makes no sense. Would I like to think that a coach might say " No, you're not ready" ? Yes. But that means losing money and turning away a baby flier who's easy to throw. So the only person who's really losing is the kid. And while blanket rules do sometimes overlook a handful of cases, in my opinion its better to keep 12 kids safe than let 3 be on


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[INeverStopCheering]

Another point Id like to make in support of raising the age floor for ALL senior teams:

I'm a back spot on a senior team. Because it's advantageous to use smaller fliers, and because those kids are talented, most of our fliers are 12 and under. I have never backed a kid over the age of 11.

Now going into college where there are no itty bitty baby fliers, I worry about my ability to back people who are closer to my size. How will I be able to lift a 120 pound girl when all I've ever done is an 85 (if that) pound girl.

So the argument that it's not fair to hold ten and elevens back is negated by the argument that its not fair to their bases and backs to put them on the team. I got cheated out of the chance to work with weight appropriate fliers. And while it was good at the time because we won, in the long term, I got the short end of the stick because I am ill prepared for college


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[King]

That was my point. No one really benefits except the coach who gets to fly a baby. And I feel like for every instance of it being deserved, there are five instances where it wasn't and all that happened was a little girl was put on a team with skills that were out of her league just because that program didn't have another team to offer her.

Leaving it to the coaches discretion makes no sense. Would I like to think that a coach might say " No, you're not ready" ? Yes. But that means losing money and turning away a baby flier who's easy to throw. So the only person who's really losing is the kid. And while blanket rules do sometimes overlook a handful of cases, in my opinion its better to keep 12 kids safe than let 3 be on


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Agreed. The overall net effect would be positive with the correct age groups. That doesn't mean there shouldnt be some adjustments and overlap, but floors need to happen.

 

[BamaCheerGuy]

I have always liked the ideas of floors on Sr 5 teams. I wish they would raise ceilings by a year on every level but Sr. by a year. 6,9,12,15 and 18. If its a safety thing then that would help. I am and have always been against 5 teams of any kind below Sr. Maybe allow a jr restricted. No youth. As a small gym owner, I see the problem with bottom ages, it would hurt. I wish we had a limit of no crossovers dropping a skill level. Sandbagging is more of an issue to me. No level 4 kid on a level 2 team.


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[yojaehs]

as to how I "feel" for a small gym it would be like essentially sending a usasf rep to your tryouts to tell you what teams you had to make, especially for the ones with less than 60 kids

when you were at stingrays would you want someone to come in and tell yall what teams you had to make? Bottom ages takes the coaches ability to choose what is best for their athletes away

Probably liked limiting large to 32 than 36 probably cost them twice as much as a bottom age would cost you this year. Since the number shrunk the industry has grown increasing long term profit for all. You have to think outside your individual situation. I have stated before that moving to 13 might take one Worlds team away from our program THIS SEASON. But long term positives outweigh short term. BIG PICTURE PEOPLE!!!!


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[CGAcheer]

Probably liked limiting large to 32 than 36 probably cost them twice as much as a bottom age would cost you this year. Since the number shrunk the industry has grown increasing long term profit for all. You have to think outside your individual situation. I have stated before that moving to 13 might take one Worlds team away from our program THIS SEASON. But long term positives outweigh short term. BIG PICTURE PEOPLE!!!!


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The vision of lowering large to 32 making the division more accessible to more gyms and thus creating more teams in the division is one that makes sense

Imagine if the ranges were
0-5
6-8
9-11
12-14
15-18

You, with about 250 to 300 kids, could probably only make 2 or 3 teams per age division, you would end up with a lot more kids on teams who are just there because of age rather than having the skill to be on the team.

Imagine if you only had 10 level 4 kids in each age range, as it is now you could make 2 level 4 teams with nearly having squad skills. With the extra restrictive age ranges you wouldn't be able to make a solid level 4 at all.

Now take that down ton a smaller gym that only has 10 -15 kids of various skill levels in each age range. Then you are on the gyms one and only sr team whether you have a whip double or a cartwheel.

Now I know that isn't what was proposed, but give an inch and they take a mile

 

[yojaehs]

The vision of lowering large to 32 making the division more accessible to more gyms and thus creating more teams in the division is one that makes sense

Imagine if the ranges were
0-5
6-8
9-11
12-14
15-18

You, with about 250 to 300 kids, could probably only make 2 or 3 teams per age division, you would end up with a lot more kids on teams who are just there because of age rather than having the skill to be on the team.

Imagine if you only had 10 level 4 kids in each age range, as it is now you could make 2 level 4 teams with nearly having squad skills. With the extra restrictive age ranges you wouldn't be able to make a solid level 4 at all.

Now take that down ton a smaller gym that only has 10 -15 kids of various skill levels in each age range. Then you are on the gyms one and only sr team whether you have a whip double or a cartwheel.

Now I know that isn't what was proposed, but give an inch and they take a mile

As I've said many times I'm for bottom ages I just don't think the industry is ready for it across the board. I'm for 13 as the Worlds bottom age starting 14-15 season.


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[CGAcheer]

I think you missed my whole example that small gym should be open divisions. And saying they are coming in to choose your team for you is hyperbole. Technically they already do that with age caps. By that argument we should have no age or level caps and just let everyone do what they want and figure out the winner.

Instead levels and age caps have increased competition, as would floors. The smaller gyms, as said earlier in my example, would be exempt. I think the size of small gym should grow anyway. As well you have the grandfather 2 year rule of producing athletes above the number of small gym before you grow out. One year of not being a small gym size doesn't mean you can maintain it.

Last, you are using your specific situation as the example of why this wouldn't work for the industry. So ignoring the benefits of the proposed system because it affects you this year for you. It doesn't necessarily affect you next year. You wouldn't choose next years teams based on this years tryouts, would you? So unless we are willing to think long term and outside the box were always just going to be running around every year wondering if we should make changes.

Top ages allow me to place a 9 year old that I've known for 5 years onto a team that I feel is most appropriate for her and the team except for onto a team that she has aged out of.

If this is about seniors flying bigger girls, we could just bring out the scales and weigh them in at comps and say you have to weigh 100+ to fly. Or you could at practice in your gym have them practice some prior to leaving for college with some bigger girls

 

[CGAcheer]

As I've said many times I'm for bottom ages I just don't think the industry is ready for it across the board. I'm for 13 as the Worlds bottom age starting 14-15 season.


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So are you ready for 15-16 when it goes up to 14-18 and the 15-18 the following year.

Who are the 12 year old hurting?

 

[CGAcheer]

What problem does the current age grid have that needs to be corrected?

Keeping in mind that if you don't want to put a 2 year old on your jr team you don't have to.

 

[CGAcheer]

And knowing that if you have bottom ages, the kids are going to assume that once they reach that age they are now old enough to be on that team instead of the gym being able to self impose their own potentially higher bottoms

 

[justcount28]

I have seen MANY people say "look at the big picture" or "I see it LONG TERM" well, so do we, we see that in the long term rules like this will do one of two things 1. so much regulation that small gyms find it difficult/impossible to remain operating an all star program 2. smaller gyms decide that it is no longer beneficial to remain apart of the USASF and they branch off. Much like what is done with artistic gymnastics where larger gyms are generally members of USAG and smaller gyms are generally members of AAU.

 

[BamaCheerGuy]

Any bottom age besides level 5 or Tiny will be the death of A) USASF and B) any hope of uniting everyone.


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[Valvalmom]

Ul

I agree with the fact that the system is broken. You'd have to be crazy to say that pitting a youth team with five year old flyers against a team with 8/9 year old flyers is an equal match. I think there needs to be some sort of age floor on all divisions, but ones that include an overlap. Im sorry, a seven year old doesn't belong on a junior team.

And for people saying that it will cause young kids not to get to cheer...let's say that you have a small town small gym that fields a youth 2 as their lowest level. Is it really good for a five year old to be on that team just because they want to cheer? Who does that really benefit?


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timately, it benefits the gym to make sure she has a team to cheer on. She may be an expendable 5 year old this year, but in 7 years, she could be the next Gabi Butler.

 

[BamaCheerGuy]

I would like to see a gym that could actually field a team with this breakdown. You might get lucky and have one. Some gyms have over a 1000 kids spread across 5 gyms. Now at one location you may have 200. Your gonna tell me that in those 200 you have the ability to place everyone on an age appropriate, level appropriate, competitive team? The odds are around 654,000 to 1 that happens. It's impossible. We actually set up and did the math on it. You cannot put a bottom age on anything but a level 5 or a tiny. Do away with all level 5 except Sr. Raise the top numbers to 6,9,12,15 and 18. Put a low end of 14 on a Sr team. I don't wanna hear too heavy of flyer. That's just being a wimp. Plenty of college kids don't have the luxury of 10 yr old flyers. If anything it would be safer, slows it down and gives worlds a better name. Something to work for. Your gonna have a few kids who at 10 can double, so what. They can't stunt it! That's why youth 5 was a joke. Make worlds something out cp strive for. We r progressing them too fast. No technique, I see plenty of 5 kids doing transitions as a forward roll! Really you can't front walk over? Never taught. We have forgotten the process of teaching fundamentals and pushing for worlds. Which burnt out kids, nothing left to work for, made a full irrelevant and forgotten safety. Don't bottom cap it except for Sr and Tiny. Raise the top end by a year and slow down.


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