All-Star Sandbagging Karma

[quitthedrama]

Here is my thought on the sandbag issue as a gym owner. I have tons of parents that want their child to progress progress progress. All the time. Every year. There are only 6 levels (really only 5 for minors). So if you child starts at level 1, you are going to run out of levels before you run out of ages but they still want to see their child go to the higher level team. As a smaller gym owner, I don't have the luxury of filling all my teams with perfect skill sets and in order to keep them in our gym, we have made some teams higher levels even though they won't max out on the score sheet. SO. I have also had my teams compete at two different levels. One to attempt to win. The other to satisfy the need to progress that frankly has become almost unbearable to me by parents.

I completely get the frustration gym owners must have with trying to keep up with the competition and pleasing athletes and parents with level placements. Gyms almost have to choose between being competitive and athlete progression, and that is so detrimental to the sport. I feel like each year more and more gyms almost have to "sandbag" in some way, shape or form in an effort to remain competitive. Lately it seems that crossovers or "fill-ins" are competing 2, 3 and sometimes even 4 levels down and make up the majority of the team, or even athletes that only compete on one team have skills at least a level above the level they are competing at. Once one gym abuses the system, it is a domino affect and more gyms feel the need to do the same thing. It will continue to become the norm unless stricter crossover rules are put in place. Given rule proposals are still being accepted, I don't see this changing any with the new rules cycle since teams will already be in place, which means at least 2 more years of sandbagging being an issue. :banghead:

 

[WinstonsGirl]

I'm ok with crossovers, deepening on the situation. We have quite a few, mostly R5 kids who are also on 4/4.2. Yes, they tumble even level 5 some of them, but most are tops on R5 who want to base too, and don't have the skills. Others are killer bases and stunt L5 but don't have all the tumbling, and are on the lower team to get better at that. I have no problems with those kids, though most are only going down 1 level versus 5 to 1.

I just don't see the appeal in dropping that many levels. I would think the kids would get super bored doing L1 skills if they are L4/5. But I also know of gyms in my area who would do that for a win/title. I think that's where parents/people have to decide what values they want at their gym and choose accordingly. I choose where I cheer based a lot on the values at my gym, and we wouldn't do that.

 

[cheermamaMD]

I think the sandbagging has become a self fulfilling prophecy. The levels are getting harder and harder so advancement will get harder and harder. I was at Summit this weekend with my kid's L4 team. The routines we saw were AMAZING! Six years ago my older daughter was on L4 and that team was awesome. That same team with their routine wouldn't even come close to a Summit bid today.

 

[12stepCheermom]

I think the sandbagging has become a self fulfilling prophecy. The levels are getting harder and harder so advancement will get harder and harder. I was at Summit this weekend with my kid's L4 team. The routines we saw were AMAZING! Six years ago my older daughter was on L4 and that team was awesome. That same team with their routine wouldn't even come close to a Summit bid today.

I guess the question is this...is that an industry trend to have full squad everything at a specific level to be competitive...

...or is that a phenomena that is specific to the summit right now due to a lack of roster restrictions.


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[cheermommaRN]

Back in the day when my oldest was on all stars if you walked into tryouts with a standing bhs and running to multiple bhs you were put on a level 3 team. Teams would work all summer to get up to level 3 and then compete. That would never happen now. The trend now is teams are put together NCA ready at tryouts, choreography is literally weeks later and then the team is drilling that routine all summer. The only way to logically progress tumbling is through extra classes or privates. Back in the day we didn't even have "extra tumbling" we practiced twice a week, one was tumbling the other was stunting/routine.
Also teams are pushing the envelope more than they were in the past. The reason KK (youth 1) won the Summit was because they were one of the only teams doing one leg prep level stunts. The only way to make that happen is having short flyers and tall bracers (both of which they had).

 

[catlady]

I guess the question is this...is that an industry trend to have full squad everything at a specific level to be competitive......or is that a phenomena that is specific to the summit right now due to a lack of roster restrictions.
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Many teams at NCA had full team tumbling and they have roster restrictions so, I lean toward "industry trend". I do, however, believe The Summit has changed the game with gyms really wanting to go and realizing a first place win won't necessarily mean you'll even get an at large. In the next couple of years, I predict large gyms will start splitting their roster up to go to different competitions to increase their chances.

 

[catlady]

It isn't just tumbling though, I have noticed flyers on level 1 and 2 teams with full team kick up to scorps, the ability to pull positions on both sides (extremely well), bow and arrows, etc. It used to be on lower level teams you would have a few of this and a few of that. I predict many gyms will start using their best flyers on multiple teams, as well.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Many teams at NCA had full team tumbling and they have roster restrictions so, I lean toward "industry trend". I do, however, believe The Summit has changed the game with gyms really wanting to go and realizing a first place win won't necessarily mean you'll even get an at large. In the next couple of years, I predict large gyms will start splitting their roster up to go to different competitions to increase their chances.

I agree. I think it's an industry trend as well and the threads you see here about "stacking" teams (meaning all kids have every skill for that level competition ready at tryouts) will go away in a season or two because that will just be the norm.

I think were seeing a lot more talent a lot younger (evidenced by al the new j5 teams being announced for 14-15) that will just continue to make cheer very competitive in terms of getting your spot on a team.

I think in 2-3 years it will be unheard of for a strong stunter with no tumbling to be on a high level team. That's fading now but 2-3 ago it was prevalent.


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[dawgshow]

Am I the only one that thinks this is about a particular team sandbagging every time the thread pops up?

 

[cheermamaMD]

I agree. I think it's an industry trend as well and the threads you see here about "stacking" teams (meaning all kids have every skill for that level competition ready at tryouts) will go away in a season or two because that will just be the norm.

I think were seeing a lot more talent a lot younger (evidenced by al the new j5 teams being announced for 14-15) that will just continue to make cheer very competitive in terms of getting your spot on a team.

I think in 2-3 years it will be unheard of for a strong stunter with no tumbling to be on a high level team. That's fading now but 2-3 ago it was prevalent.


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Personally, I get ann

 

[cheermamaMD]

Personally, I get ann

Personally, I get annoyed when athletes are put on a level without the tumbling. I usually see it when that particular athlete 'needs' to be leveled up. So maybe this trend is a good thing.

 

[TheDivineCheerYaYaSecret]

My younger sister just finished a year on a youth level 1 team. It was her first year in cheer. They were very competitive, especially coming from a very small gym (3 teams total, nothing over a level 3). No one on her team had cheered before, but they ended up being the most "successful" team in the gym. One of the things I found was how quickly they progressed. There were 0 back handsprings on the team of 14 at the beginning of the year, but now nearly all of them have it. Many of them, my sister included have began working tucks. It could very well be that at the beginning of the season, your competitors were true level 1 teams and just gained skills pretty rapidly over the course of that year.

I recognize that bow and warm up!!! If I'm correct then I am not at all surprised by their success and their skills advancement!!!! My CP used to cheer at their sister gym!