All-Star Should They Be Going To World's?

[Cheer Dad]

Our gym has attended Worlds on At-Large and Partial bids. Last year the kids had a not so great performance and missed advancing from Saturday mornings routine by 1 placement. Am sure in part nervousness came into play but am also sure being star struck did not help much either. This year they are all older, wiser and hopefully preparing the new kids to the team on what to expect. I am saddened for them not advancing and for not having a great morning but I do not regret the money expended and am doing the whole thing all over again this year. Are we going to win Worlds this year? Maybe not but if you don't go into it with the idea you have a shot then you don't stand a chance and that is regardless of what team or program you are with.

 

[imrichhowboutu]

It's funny that nobody asked the gyms who make money on standing fulls, and bounding classes if they cared if tumbling was restricted.

Just since you opened that can of worms, please list 5 gyms that even have those classes...... then list 5 gyms that have them more than once a week or have more than 5 athletes in them at a time. They are not a money maker.

 

[cheerinfo]

Just since you opened that can of worms, please list 5 gyms that even have those classes...... then list 5 gyms that have them more than once a week or have more than 5 athletes in them at a time. They are not a money maker.

But kids that WANT to get to that level DO fill up classes. Take away that incentive, and you may be looking at the "trickle down" effect with kids leaving tumbling classes.

 

[Cheer Dad]

Cheer_Explosion_Coach said: ↑

It's funny that nobody asked the gyms who make money on standing fulls, and bounding classes if they cared if tumbling was restricted.​

Just since you opened that can of worms, please list 5 gyms that even have those classes...... then list 5 gyms that have them more than once a week or have more than 5 athletes in them at a time. They are not a money maker.

Agree with Rich. The percentage of athletes in a program that would take this type of class is small compared to the rest of the program so not a huge money maker and how do you know it was not some of the big name gyms with lots of advanced tumbling that asked for the restrictions? Would guess the more kids throwing those skills at one gym the more likelyhood of seeing injury pattern. Just a basic statical thing in my mind.

 

[flcheermom]

I don't think limiting it to only paid bids is the answer. I do think there needs to be some at large bids - maybe just not as many - but have a set score that needs to be achieved.... for all bids regardless....If they do limit it to just paid bids then they need to base it on scores - as some comps give it to division winners when the "divisions" have been weak - or not deep (2 teams) while other divisions have been deep (10 + teams) - and a second place team has outscored division winners and not recieved a paid bid - My daughters team has placed well at worlds the last 2 years (top ten) and we have only had an at large...beating some teams with paids.. and going again this year on an at large... so we will see what happens I am also not really bothered by who attends - if they choose to go, then they have that right if they earned a bid. I just think maybe basing the bids on scores at events would be a step in the right direction - maybe trim down the at larges.

 

[yojaehs]

I don't think limiting it to only paid bids is the answer. I do think there needs to be some at large bids - maybe just not as many - but have a set score that needs to be achieved.... for all bids regardless....If they do limit it to just paid bids then they need to base it on scores - as some comps give it to division winners when the "divisions" have been weak - or not deep (2 teams) while other divisions have been deep (10 + teams) - and a second place team has outscored division winners and not recieved a paid bid - My daughters team has placed well at worlds the last 2 years (top ten) and we have only had an at large...beating some teams with paids.. and going again this year on an at large... so we will see what happens I am also not really bothered by who attends - if they choose to go, then they have that right if they earned a bid. I just think maybe basing the bids on scores at events would be a step in the right direction - maybe trim down the at larges.

I agree but until there is a Universal Score Sheet, this won't happen.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Furthermore, to add to my statement above, I'm in a serious minority. I'm taking my cp to watch this year for preparation, support of others and inspiration. I don't know of any other parent in our gym that's doing that. It would be nearly impossible to get 20-36 sets of parents to send their child to FL to NOT compete. It's a lot of money to spend, trust. And I'm sure there are a lot of parents who don't think I should take her until she's "earned" it - similar to those people who think an At Large bid isn't a "real" bid, and the teams who go to Worlds on At Large don't have a right to be there. Unfortunately for that argument, I know my child, and if I drop her into a foreign situation with massive amounts of pressure, being completely unfamiliar with it, she's liable to choke. So when she makes a level 5 team, and gets to compete at Worlds, at least she can say "Ok. I've seen this before. I can concentrate on my job now." She'll be nothing but more prepared when she has earned the right to compete on that floor.

That's exactly what we did with our kids for CHEERSPORT nationals. I our gyms second year (last year) they only took our two senior teams. We went anyway to cheer on our teams and let my kids see just how big cheersport is so when they got to go (which they did this year) they wouldn't be overwhelmed. Having come from a gym that is basically a glorified rec program, I didn't want them to choke when they were faced with the spectacle that is cheersport. And they didn't actually its my daughters favorite competition in terms of how it's run and set up.

 

[tdittmar]

Let's face it, only a few teams, of all the teams going, are going to taste the sweetness of victory. And it's not the small gyms. It's the mega-programs that win every single time (I reserve the right to exclude Brandon and some other gyms from this statement.) So how do you get the parents and athletes, who have never been to Worlds, to want to work harder and get better, in order to be competitive? You show them what's possible.
If parents are willing to pay the money to not make it past Day 1, fine. Let them. Maybe some athletes will leave inspired. In that case, it is for the experience, and they should go. What concerns me isn't what skills they compete with this year. It's what they attempt next year, in order to try to be more competitve, after they've seen the rest of the cheer world at Worlds.

Thank you for this statement. While some teams may not knowingly have the skills to hang with the big dogs, I think most of them have a pretty good idea of where they stand realistically. I know teams that make their own personal goal whether it's to make it to day 2 or try to reach for top 10. I'm not even sure how teams with at large bids really affect those with paid ones? While you are out playing in the parks Friday night ( or whatever you do), they will be performing for a chance just to compete on day 2. But that's their choice and I'm not sure why is bothers so many people. What equals success for one program may not be the same for another, and who are we to say who is truly deserving?

 

[12stepCheermom]

Let's face it, only a few teams, of all the teams going, are going to taste the sweetness of victory. And it's not the small gyms. It's the mega-programs that win every single time (I reserve the right to exclude Brandon and some other gyms from this statement.) So how do you get the parents and athletes, who have never been to Worlds, to want to work harder and get better, in order to be competitive? You show them what's possible.
If parents are willing to pay the money to not make it past Day 1, fine. Let them. Maybe some athletes will leave inspired. In that case, it is for the experience, and they should go. What concerns me isn't what skills they compete with this year. It's what they attempt next year, in order to try to be more competitve, after they've seen the rest of the cheer world at Worlds.

Here's more food for thought....I saw in another thread where a janktastic team apparently thinks very highly of themselves and the conversation there made sense....maybe they aren't exposed (with what they go to) to where they actually fall in terms of skill and strength of routine. I think In some sense, bringing a team that, as a coach you know may not be ready, still has merit in terms of your vision for your program. Maybe you decided your kids needed a wake up call about what it ACTUALLY takes to get to Sunday. Maybe letting them get a little perspective is exactly what you need to "inspire" your kids to work for that bid in July rather than February. You can talk to them until your blue in the face, but if they have an overinflated ego.....that is exactly the venue where several teams will give them a wake up call. Harsh....maybe.....effective, definitely. The ones who get angry and leave didn't have the heart to be there in the first place and the ones who want it will get to work.

 

[12stepCheermom]

Thank you for this statement. While some teams may not knowingly have the skills to hang with the big dogs, I think most of them have a pretty good idea of where they stand realistically. I know teams that make their own personal goal whether it's to make it to day 2 or try to reach for top 10. I'm not even sure how teams with at large bids really affect those with paid ones? While you are out playing in the parks Friday night ( or whatever you do), they will be performing for a chance just to compete on day 2. But that's their choice and I'm not sure why is bothers so many people. What equals success for one program may not be the same for another, and who are we to say who is truly deserving?

Can I shimmy this a thousand times? Success for Top Gun is not the same thing as success for most of the rest of the gyms in the industry. When we spend an inordinate amount of time talking about the elite 5-10 gyms on this board I think perspective gets lost. I'm quite sure everyone who attends has a pretty clear idea of what they're capable of in that field and makes their own goals for what equals success to them...and if that's just making it through Friday to compete in the prelims, so be it. While that may be devastating to Cali, that may be as good as a globe to another program.

 

[tdittmar]

Can I shimmy this a thousand times? Success for Top Gun is not the same thing as success for most of the rest of the gyms in the industry. When we spend an inordinate amount of time talking about the elite 5-10 gyms on this board I think perspective gets lost. I'm quite sure everyone who attends has a pretty clear idea of what they're capable of in that field and makes their own goals for what equals success to them...and if that's just making it through Friday to compete in the prelims, so be it. While that may be devastating to Cali, that may be as good as a globe to another program.

:chestbump:

 

[imrichhowboutu]

But kids that WANT to get to that level DO fill up classes. Take away that incentive, and you may be looking at the "trickle down" effect with kids leaving tumbling classes.

Have you ever seen a standing full class or a bounding tumbling class?
I've never heard of a gym that offers one. That is my point. Most gyms have advanced tumbling classes.

How many tumbling classes are the ELITE tumblers in cheerleading really taking. Assume no one is making their money in tumbling classes off of the Kelsey's, Toni's, Kiara's, Angel's in the gym.

 

[yojaehs]

After reading through this some more it got me thinking of the IOC5 div. Does the same thing apply? This year I have seen 10+ IOC5 teams that on any given day could Globe, but ONLY 3 U.S. teams will compete on Sunday. Does that mean the other 20+ teams whether they receive a full/partial/at-large should just not go? The difference in a "one day" in Orlando is pricey. Just got me thinking, (I think they should go) but another side to the coin.

 

[cheerinfo]

Have you ever seen a standing full class or a bounding tumbling class?
I've never heard of a gym that offers one. That is my point. Most gyms have advanced tumbling classes.

How many tumbling classes are the ELITE tumblers in cheerleading really taking. Assume no one is making their money in tumbling classes off of the Kelsey's, Toni's, Kiara's, Angel's in the gym.

As I said before, it's not necessarily the ones already with those skills that fill classes. But kids that WANT those skills. That look up to those athletes, etc. THEY will fill classes because they WANT to get those skills. So it is a trickle down issue. If you take away the need to attain those skills, no one will work to get them and your classes will taper off once a kid gets a full.

 

[CD FOREVER AND EVA!]

dont play with me if this is really you. im about to pass out!

No I'm just playing. I have a 21 month old LOL so I'm not that old....