All-Star Starting A Discussion: The Safety Of Spring Floor Vs... Well.. Anything Else

[King]

I think nether spring or non-spring floors are much safer than another. Sure spring floor helps absorb landings and help with higher rebounds but toy can still get the same injuries from both floors. No matter how long you have had a skill you can still mess up your technique that one time or it could just be an over use injury. Spring floors seam safer but are they really that much safer than normal floors when your stunting or tumbling technique is off?

Yes. They provide a lower chance of injury. Not that females watch wrestling... but have you ever watched the WWE? They basically perform on a spring floor specifically because it prevents injury.

 

[Level5Mom]

I will turn that comment around: It is worth putting that many kids at risk for injury by not saying that practicing and competing on a hard floor is more risky to KEEP the current high school situation the same?

Fact is cheerleading his amazingly progressed. The skills and level of competition (pushed by all-star) has far exceeded what high schools SHOULD be trying... and if they do try they should not be trying on hard floor.

That doesn't mean high school cheering shouldn't exist, it just means their should be an acceptable level of risk for all high schools... which is probably a good bit more limited on a hard floor. If you compete on spring floor... you can do more skills.

Love this post King . You hit the nail on the head.

I think it must be hard for coaches of school squads to balance limiting difficulty with cutting off their own talent source. Because there is no level play in school cheer, coaches must push the difficulty level with unprepared athletes to even have a chance to score high enough to get to state. Make it too easy and your highly skilled athletes won't even want to try out (no talent = no chance= why try out at all), make it too hard and you lose half your team to injuries (and lower-skilled won't even try out, or higher skilled fear lower skilled stunting and won't try out). I won't even get into the rules about how often and what time of year you are allowed to practice! But I digress.....that is another topic for another thread I suppose.

 

[Cheerleaders21]

Yes. They provide a lower chance of injury. Not that females watch wrestling... but have you ever watched the WWE? They basically perform on a spring floor specifically because it prevents injury.

I feel like if spring floors were to be used in high school cheer. The number of injuries wouldn't decrease much. The school I go to will have girls trying to double from stunts five minutes after they learned how to full down. When they teach doubles they say its just like a single but you wrap harder. I feel like the unqualified coaches in high school will keep the number of injuries in the same place instead of lowering them.

 

[SharkDad]

But is your angle to eliminate school teams? To force them to practice at allstar gyms? To ground bound them? Because I know for a fact that in Florida - most school teams don't even get a regular space to roll out the mats they purchased themselves. Much less a permanent room to have a spring floor set up in.

I know @kingston would like to get more people involved in the discussion in order to educate and try to improve the sport.

The sport should be interested in whatever is best to improve safety and reduce risk of major injury. In this case. . .if the right answer is that all teams that compete and/or accomplish ANY stunting MUST be on a spring floor, then that is what what we should all strive for.

 

[SharkDad]

Here is a link to an article with further links to actual injury studies related to different surfaces.

http://terry-zeigler.suite101.com/surfaces-matter-for-keeping-cheerleaders-safe-a181445

It focusses on decreasing catastrophic injuries due to falls, but you can correlate this to tumbling as well, since some surfaces can be dangerous with falls as low as 1.5ft. This study was written in 2009 with other studies done since.

AACCA is named spefically and is falling short given this knowledge in not mandating surface types for certain activities in the name of cost.

 

[njallday]

I'm not sure of the physics of everything, all I am sure of is what I have experienced.

In high school, we practiced on a 4" foam floor on top of a basketball court. During competition season, we also practiced once a week on a spring floor at the local all star gym. I fell out of stunts on both mats, and most of the time there was no difference.

There was one time, however, where I fell out of the stunt onto the spring floor and my head bounced, causing me to hit it twice. Sure, my stunt group should have caught me, maybe it was inadequate coaching, [insert any other reason here,] but my injury was worse on the spring floor. Had I fallen onto a basketball court opposed to the 4" foam mat, I'm sure that would have been the worst injury out of the three.

Tumbling-wise is a whole other story. I've had arthritis my entire life. (starting with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis.) While I probably shouldn't have tumbled at all, the spring floor definitely trumps a hard floor. The constant pounding of your joints is bad enough. Constantly pounding them onto a surface without any give is even worse. I assume this is where the physics comes in, and I'll stay out of that

 

[Level5Mom]

Here is a link to an article with further links to actual injury studies related to different surfaces.

http://terry-zeigler.suite101.com/surfaces-matter-for-keeping-cheerleaders-safe-a181445

It focusses on decreasing catastrophic injuries due to falls, but you can correlate this to tumbling as well, since some surfaces can be dangerous with falls as low as 1.5ft. This study was written in 2009 with other studies done since.

AACCA is named spefically and is falling short given this knowledge in not mandating surface types for certain activities in the name of cost.

What do you think they mean by "landing mat on a foam floor"? The 1 inch thick soft mat on top, or the 1 foot thick crash mat? What is a landing mat?

 

[SharkDad]

What do you think they mean by "landing mat on a foam floor"? The 1 inch thick soft mat on top, or the 1 foot thick crash mat? What is a landing mat?

I was wondering that as well. I'll see if it specifies or shows illustrations in any of the studies.

 

[cupieqt]

What do you think they mean by "landing mat on a foam floor"? The 1 inch thick soft mat on top, or the 1 foot thick crash mat? What is a landing mat?

I'd like to know that also! Great article

 

[King]

• concrete – 0.5 ft
• vinyl installed over concrete – 0.5 ft
• carpet – 1 ft
• asphalt – 1 ft
• rubberized track – 1.5 ft
• dry dirt – 2 ft
• dry grass, 2 inches tall – 3.5 ft
• artificial turf – 4 ft
• traditional foam floor – 4 ft
• wood gym floor – 4.5 ft
• dry grass, 4 inches tall – 4.5 ft
• landing mat on vinyl tile – 6.5 ft
• landing mat on foam floor – exceeds 10.5 ft
• spring floor – exceeds 11 ft

Heck I didn't even know this was out there. So lets direct what this means. And.. I pose the question to y'all. what does this mean?

 

[King]

I'd like to know that also! Great article

I will go with crash mat (6 inch) on a hard floor.

 

[Level5Mom]

I will go with crash mat (6 inch) on a hard floor.

Well obviously that in and of itself is unsafe to stunt on or around.....so springfloor it is .

 

[SharkDad]

It means there are safety standards out there and that leadership in competitive cheer is ignoring it. All Star cheer is the only format that comes close. NCATA is following some guidelines as well but I confess that I don't know what they all are.

All other forms: sideline, rec, middle school, high school, and college are knowingly performing stunts and tumbling on surfaces that they know are not safe.

here is another, more recent article: http://www.sportsmd.com/SportsMD_Articles/id/351.aspx

The discussion is going on and being written about. I hope more people get educated and steer clear of organizations (even All Star cheer gyms) that are allowing their kids to perform in an unsafe environment.

 

[cupieqt]

[*]concrete – 0.5 ft
[*]vinyl installed over concrete – 0.5 ft
[*]carpet – 1 ft
[*]asphalt – 1 ft
[*]rubberized track – 1.5 ft
[*]dry dirt – 2 ft
[*]dry grass, 2 inches tall – 3.5 ft
[*]artificial turf – 4 ft
[*]traditional foam floor – 4 ft
[*]wood gym floor – 4.5 ft
[*]dry grass, 4 inches tall – 4.5 ft
[*]landing mat on vinyl tile – 6.5 ft
[*]landing mat on foam floor – exceeds 10.5 ft
[*]spring floor – exceeds 11 ft


Heck I didn't even know this was out there. So lets direct what this means. And.. I pose the question to y'all. what does this mean?

I do not allow my athletes to perform, warm up or play around on hard surfaces anyway. Even at competitions. We wait for warm ups (and if its an emergancy and we can't find grass, too bad--mark whatever changes were made til it's drilled in your brain then do it in warm ups).
My school cheerleaders on the other hand perform on a foam track at football games and concrete/wooden floors at basketball games. Mats are not provided on the sidelines. We are allowed three cheer floor panels in exactly that sized space to practice.
Maybe I should be scheduling a meeting with the principals of these schools.

 

[King]

I do not allow my athletes to perform, warm up or play around on hard surfaces anyway. Even at competitions. We wait for warm ups (and if its an emergancy and we can't find grass, too bad--mark whatever changes were made til it's drilled in your brain then do it in warm ups).
My school cheerleaders on the other hand perform on a foam track at football games and concrete/wooden floors at basketball games. Mats are not provided on the sidelines. We are allowed three cheer floor panels in exactly that sized space to practice.
Maybe I should be scheduling a meeting with the principals of these schools.

Please. Change comes from asking questions and raising awareness.