All-Star Starting A Discussion: The Safety Of Spring Floor Vs... Well.. Anything Else

[laughAlittle]

The risk of spring floor 4+ on a spring floor is far less than those skills on hard floor.

there still are risks though, why dont we just eliminate all the risks that there are? level 3 for everything would stop all injuries. isnt that what everyone wants? I dont believe it is a good idea, but everyone else seems to think were too risky as cheerleaders.

 

[SharkDad]

No one I know believes there will ever be no injuries in any youth sports.

The issue here is that there are different standards for what is safe and what is not for different levels of cheer. That should not be the case. The skills accomplished in cheer anywhere -- sideline, rec, schools, all star, college, STUNT, NCATA -- are the same and therefore the safety standards for them (the word standard is used for a reason) should be the same no matter where you accomplish them.

The most completely established set of safety rule sand standards lies with All Star. That may not end up being the final standard, but it is a good start. Try finding 1 comprehensive set of safety rules for rec, school, or college. There is none. There are the AACCA recommendations, then there is the NFHS, then each state and county can interpret their own, then for college there is UCA and NCA. This lack of a standard and in execution COMPLETE lack of enforcement is what puts the athletes at risk. It has to stop if the sport ever wants to be taken seriously.

 

[xoxbeastbackspotxox]

Personally I prefer to perform on spring floor. I hate flat mat bc I did an accidental dive roll (don't ask) during warm ups and my back hurt for a week. I hate flat mat but if I have to perform on it then I'll do it.

 

[cheergirl4444]

And as business goes it makes sense to limit school to level 3. That way all-star gyms will be sought out more to compete the higher level skills. Everyone is safer and cheerleading grows.

i am all for safety, i hate seeing people hurt but i do not think this would be the best idea. there are several girls on high school teams (mine included) who have level 5 skills but can not afford to do all-star. i know that the girls on my team who had higher level skills and worked so hard to get those skills would be devastated to not be able to compete them.

 

[King]

i am all for safety, i hate seeing people hurt but i do not think this would be the best idea. there are several girls on high school teams (mine included) who have level 5 skills but can not afford to do all-star. i know that the girls on my team who had higher level skills and worked so hard to get those skills would be devastated to not be able to compete them.

What if they had worked hard to get a double back? Are they devastated when they get to cheerleading and can no longer use it? What is the difference between that?

 

[pinksparklybow]

@kingston - you've got me thoroughly intrigued with all of your safety postings. I didn't know if you are doing research before taking some type of action but I was curious to know what your "next steps" if any are. this is brought on by a) previously mentioned safety posts and b) my mom coaches as well (high school only) and she casually told me today that the principals of their high school league met up one day and decided that it was suddenly ok for the cheerleaders to stunt. I told her heck no don't allow it as she is not trained in it and the liability is huge at this point. just curious what your thoughts were as far as an action plan...

 

[King]

@kingston - you've got me thoroughly intrigued with all of your safety postings. I didn't know if you are doing research before taking some type of action but I was curious to know what your "next steps" if any are. this is brought on by a) previously mentioned safety posts and b) my mom coaches as well (high school only) and she casually told me today that the principals of their high school league met up one day and decided that it was suddenly ok for the cheerleaders to stunt. I told her heck no don't allow it as she is not trained in it and the liability is huge at this point. just curious what your thoughts were as far as an action plan...

Most of my posts just come from my thinking. I have one of those brains that just DOES not stop (hence why I only sleep like 5 hours a night). This particular year with Amber I just noticed how we always seem to have a large increase in injuries during this part of the year. I also notice how, while there is a general love of cheerleading in the gym, there is always halfway said jokes from everyone (even coaches from other gyms that are on our open team) how everyone just wants to 'get through' the high school season. Then I really started observing. In our area there are plenty of teams that have an assortment of leveled athletes. Level 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s are all on the same team. But what levels do I see the most injured during this time? Level 5s and Level 4s. Level 3s and 2s on high school teams have a much lower incidence of injury. But thinking about it.. it shouldn't be that way. Level 4s and 5s are better trained, more coordinated... they should be better physically prepared for high school teams. And it isn't just at high school practice where these athletes are getting injured. It is also at Rays during this time period that the incidence of injury increases. So, it stands to reason there are a few causes:
- Level 4 and Level 5 athletes have the ability to perform higher level tumbling skills. When asked to perform them on a hard floor their technique changes and alternating between surfaces increases the likelihood that incorrect timing and technique will be used on the wrong surface
-Level 4 and Level 5 athletes on a high school team (even if its just 4 of them) increase the ability of the team to try more difficult building skills. the coaches know at least one person on the team has the ability to compete a skill even if the 3 or 4 others involved have no clue what they are doing (high school coaches tend to not be the best judge of what is possible) so they feel the level 5 abilities will rub off on the level 2 and 3 athletes and they have a shot at using it to make routines more difficult
-Coaches will have the level 5 athlete compete their level 5 skill an abnormal amount of times during a routine to make up for a lack of other level 5 athletes
-The wear and tear of high level skills on hard floor. For all your runners out there... consider running the difference between running on cement and asphalt (if you run you can feel the difference).
-High schools seem to have a practice schedule that is insane. 5 days a week... pounding away attempting things they have no good reason trying.

In short, limiting teams to level 3 on hard floor and in high school would prevent a lot of injuries for multiple reasons AND create more business opportunities for all-star gyms.

Now these types of correlations are hard to see by the naked eye, but I have spent a good deal of my life looking for them (and I have a knack for it). Usually something like this would only be found with good tracking and regression analysis.

But there is no tracking. There is no good system to see all of this stuff. And, no, I don't have a plan. I wish I did. I don't have the power, resources, or influence to start something to do this. What I do have is a platform to spur discussion and raise the awareness of everyone. Maybe, just maybe, someone else will have a spark and something.

 

[pinksparklybow]

I absolutely agree and will give you one more. I've seen very inexperienced high schoolers attempt level 1-3 skills because "they do it at their all star gym." This does not in any way mean that they know how to execute it properly and often due to lack of coaching experience, a huge risk exists and injuries occur.

This breaches multiple areas of concern which are all overlapping. Lack of facilites and lack of coach training for one. Secondly, most often an ignorant (not in the rude sense, but just ignorant) administration at schools who don't see the physical or financial risks, nor care to learn them. Lastly, the insistence of school cheer as a club, not a sport, which then lacks certifications/credentialing and the awareness of the liabilities schools are creating for themselves.

I think once large enough, if changes were made, schools would begin to regulate themselves (ie school A sees school B doing an activity that has been deemed "unsafe" and reports it to X governing association).

Does anyone know the stipulations/ramifications of labeling cheer as a high school sport at individual schools? I think to not allow any stunting/tumbling at a school that does "club sideline" cheer would get a LOT of schools switching over to a better regulated sport sideline cheer system. Just thinking out loud. And I agree kingston....I'd love to see some actions change. The knowledge we have in the all star industry could benefit school cheer tremendously but as to the means...who knows.

Is there any type of National (High) School Cheer Association? I don't even know if something like that exists.

 

[pinksparklybow]

well I do see there is the AACCA (American Association of Cheerleading Coaches and Administrators) but I see that most of the regulations are what we would find in a standard first set of comp rules prior to looking at level info (ie. no jewelry, no gum, wear safe shoes, etc). The National Federation of State High School Associations does measure participation but only with competitive cheer, not cheer as a whole.

 

[SharkDad]

These last few posts are a great summary of the main issues that are out there. For the sake of the HS kids capable of Level 5 skills, please don't feel like you are being limited if you can't compete them. For the good of all kids in the sport, realize that preventing you from accomplishing these skills on bad surfaces prevents you and other from needless injury.

AACCA has a VERY basic approach to safety guidlines, but nothing regulatory

USA Cheer claims to be the expert in all things cheer, but regrettably they have no enforecment authority, no membership by cheer participation, so therefore it is a falsely advertised cheer authority.

NFHS has representation in USA Cheer, but cheer is represented within NFHS as a "Spirit Activity". You can get safety guidelines in their spirit handbook and states are supposed (in other words--not required) to provide their own spirit handbook interpretations for their state cheer association. The problem with all this is another assumption that "the other guy" is handling cheer safety but no one really has ANY regulatory or enforcement authority besides event producers.

This entire system includes major gaps that allow multiple unsafe practices to go on everyday.

 

[cheergirl4444]

What if they had worked hard to get a double back? Are they devastated when they get to cheerleading and can no longer use it? What is the difference between that?

well, none of us have ever worked on double backs. they have always been illegal so we never had to work towards getting them, a full was never illegal, it is what everyone works towards on my team. if you work so hard towards getting a new skill and then you aren't allowed to compete it, what was the point it working for it?

 

[Deleted member 15]

well, none of us have ever worked on double backs. they have always been illegal so we never had to work towards getting them, a full was never illegal, it is what everyone works towards on my team. if you work so hard towards getting a new skill and then you aren't allowed to compete it, what was the point it working for it?

Double backs were legal.

 

[King]

I've seen quite a few double backs.

 

[cupieqt]

Double backs were legal.

I remember seeing them competed.

 

[laughAlittle]

fulls and double backs are like apples and oranges, you cannot compare them.