All-Star Starting A Discussion: The Safety Of Spring Floor Vs... Well.. Anything Else

[pinksparklybow]

Ok, I'm going to play a bit of devils advocate here. I 100% agree that hard floor is much more dangerous than spring floor HOWEVER, isn't the purpose of training athletes to prepare them for college cheerleading? If that is the case, shouldn't we as coaches teach PROPER hard floor technique to prepare these athletes that will hopefully be continuing on to college cheerleading where hard floor is the only option? I am a HUGE fan of spring floor all the way around but at the same time I'm a realist, I was coaching college when it went from doubles to full and halfs (I still don't understand that logic but whatever that's a different debate) and I know that MAJORITY of schools (high school and college) do not have the financial means to participate on a spring floor. So I ask this, should the all-star community at least attempt to adapt to high school and more importantly college standards? Just curious on opinions

I love devils advocate arguments as it means the entre picture is being reviewed for the benefit of all. What you bring up is definitiely another question to look into....(which ties into ensuring proper safety/progressions)

 

[King]

College cheerleading is considerably more dangerous in so many ways. I think all college cheerleading should be sideline based with limited skills. Leave competing to open teams.

Here is a nice study to help back up my feelings: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775359/

 

[yojaehs]

College cheerleading is considerably more dangerous in so many ways. I think all college cheerleading should be sideline based with limited skills. Leave competing to open teams.

Here is a nice study to help back up my feelings: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775359/[/quot
I'm only asking for clarification, but your saying college and high school teams should participate a limited skill set, correct? Sorry, just didn't feel like reading 13 pages lol

 

[King]

Yes. Unless on a spring floor everyone should be limited to level 2 or 3. College has the worst training and highest accident rate. (thats what the study says)

 

[SarahS]

Yes. Unless on a spring floor everyone should be limited to level 2 or 3. College has the worst training and highest accident rate. (thats what the study says)

The difference that I see is that college cheerleaders are adults and can make the choice to participate - or not - in activities based on their own risk assessment. At some point you have to let people have a bit of autonomy in their decision-making. I, personally, would never care to risk my body to the brutal pounding that college football players endure, but some people choose to. They're adults; allowing them to make those decisions makes sense to me. I don't think colleges should be limited to level 3, and certainly not level 2. I don't think *anyone* should be limited to level 2, actually, unless skills are performed on a hard floor with no mats.... and even then, I'm not sure about that limitation. (I like the current AACCA hard floor limitations - no twisting tumbling, no released twisting skills, no (well, very few) inversions and no baskets on hard floor, but single leg extended stunts? Definitely able to be performed safely on hard floor.)

 

[King]

The difference that I see is that college cheerleaders are adults and can make the choice to participate - or not - in activities based on their own risk assessment. At some point you have to let people have a bit of autonomy in their decision-making. I, personally, would never care to risk my body to the brutal pounding that college football players endure, but some people choose to. They're adults; allowing them to make those decisions makes sense to me. I don't think colleges should be limited to level 3, and certainly not level 2. I don't think *anyone* should be limited to level 2, actually, unless skills are performed on a hard floor with no mats.... and even then, I'm not sure about that limitation. (I like the current AACCA hard floor limitations - no twisting tumbling, no released twisting skills, no (well, very few) inversions and no baskets on hard floor, but single leg extended stunts? Definitely able to be performed safely on hard floor.)

the problem is the majority of adults are also not informed enough to make the proper choices.

 

[OnceUponACheerleader]

So, I’m so sorry if this may have been mentioned, I scrolled through every few pages and didn’t see it so here’s what I think...
Probably more than half of us have competed on a worlds or NCA floor, and the adrenalin + springs = ridiculously high/powerful/dynamic tumbling. If anyone has watched teams compete in the Jostens center with the raised stage, there were injuries galore because the athletes do not have the body control and they are flying of the stage, and misjudging landings.
So yes, I defiantly think spring floors are the way to go because my wrists and knees cannot take tumbling on anything else, but athletes need to have sufficient training, and body control to know how to use the power gained from a sprung floor, especially in a high adrenalin situation such as competing...
Make sense? Haha

 

[pinksparklybow]

Ok, I'm going to play a bit of devils advocate here. I 100% agree that hard floor is much more dangerous than spring floor HOWEVER, isn't the purpose of training athletes to prepare them for college cheerleading? If that is the case, shouldn't we as coaches teach PROPER hard floor technique to prepare these athletes that will hopefully be continuing on to college cheerleading where hard floor is the only option? I am a HUGE fan of spring floor all the way around but at the same time I'm a realist, I was coaching college when it went from doubles to full and halfs (I still don't understand that logic but whatever that's a different debate) and I know that MAJORITY of schools (high school and college) do not have the financial means to participate on a spring floor. So I ask this, should the all-star community at least attempt to adapt to high school and more importantly college standards? Just curious on opinions

I thought about it over lunch and I'll devils advocate you. While you are correct about the hard floor, with the emergence of Stunt, etc. cheerleaders are competing on safer floors with those instances. So I guess there is a small bit of variability. I don't see the elimination of football/basketball cheer in college though so it's kind of a moot point.

One other point to consider.....with USASF as the governing body for all star, teams are penalized at competitions for legality infractions. With schools, there will not be those same incentives for "penalties." Just a thought.

 

[laughAlittle]

College cheerleading is considerably more dangerous in so many ways. I think all college cheerleading should be sideline based with limited skills. Leave competing to open teams.

Here is a nice study to help back up my feelings: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775359/

In the article it states, "Most injuries occurred while the cheerleader was spotting or basing another cheerleader (34%, 115/338), and these injuries comprised 32% (51/161) of all stunt-related strains and sprains.". If youre a base, backspot, or front, it DOES NOT matter whether or not you are on spring floor or not. Shouldnt we limit all stunting then if its our bases getting hurt? Allstar cheerleading has bases too & are equally vulnerable on a spring floor when athletes are doubling out of a stunt/ catching a basket. Spring floor has nothing to do with this.

 

[laughAlittle]

the problem is the majority of adults are also not informed enough to make the proper choices.

theyre adults though, when is it time to release the leash?

 

[King]

theyre adults though, when is it time to release the leash?

Caveat emptor kinda thing?
Are you a tea partier? Just curious.

 

[King]

In the article it states, "Most injuries occurred while the cheerleader was spotting or basing another cheerleader (34%, 115/338), and these injuries comprised 32% (51/161) of all stunt-related strains and sprains.". If youre a base, backspot, or front, it DOES NOT matter whether or not you are on spring floor or not. Shouldnt we limit all stunting then if its our bases getting hurt? Allstar cheerleading has bases too & are equally vulnerable on a spring floor when athletes are doubling out of a stunt/ catching a basket. Spring floor has nothing to do with this.

Considering all college and high school training is very little I would be fine with that.

And lets get down to brass tacks. College cheerleading is one national injury away from being ground bound everywhere. In fact, once it becomes a sport I could see the limits increase on the sidelines because how do you argue all those skills are worth the insurance risk? It's not that I don't like college cheerleading and skills (I love them) but the whole thing is a house of cards. Things cannot and will not continue this way because there is just one major incident that will gain national headlines and it will be done. Last time a girl had to be wheeled off on a stretcher at a basketball game they took away a good amount of skills. If she had died we wouldn't be having this discussion because there would be no skills in college. As long as cheerleading is in limbo and not a sport and the university has nothing to gain from the harder skills (do you need a double full basket to lead a crowd?) how long can it exist before it goes away?

 

[laughAlittle]

Considering all college and high school training is very little I would be fine with that.

And lets get down to brass tacks. College cheerleading is one national injury away from being ground bound everywhere. In fact, once it becomes a sport I could see the limits increase on the sidelines because how do you argue all those skills are worth the insurance risk? It's not that I don't like college cheerleading and skills (I love them) but the whole thing is a house of cards. Things cannot and will not continue this way because there is just one major incident that will gain national headlines and it will be done. Last time a girl had to be wheeled off on a stretcher at a basketball game they took away a good amount of skills. If she had died we wouldn't be having this discussion because there would be no skills in college. As long as cheerleading is in limbo and not a sport and the university has nothing to gain from the harder skills (do you need a double full basket to lead a crowd?) how long can it exist before it goes away?

answer my question though, not to be rude but you have said the same thing to me before, shouldnt we limit stunting in every type of cheer if its the bases getting hurt?...

 

[King]

answer my question though, not to be rude but you have said the same thing to me before, shouldnt we limit stunting in every type of cheer if its the bases getting hurt?...

The rates of getting injured are a lot less in all-star and much higher in college, yes? I say remove college and keep all-star.

 

[laughAlittle]

The rates of getting injured are a lot less in all-star and much higher in college, yes? I say remove college and keep all-star.

wheres the proof? theres no data to back that up.
* ETA the odds of a base getting hurt are equal no matter what surface you put them on, its the coaches that matter in that instance.