All-Star The Summit 2017 Video Thread

[FamUsM0m]

The unfortunate part is, we all know at any given time there are a lot of blocking kids in a gym. This isn't a judgement issue on you or your child, you don't choose her placement. However, we all know it doesn't take a person that has been in AS very long to figure out and witness this strategy. Because of gyms doing this, coaches will continue to have to bump kids down in levels to compete in level 1 & 2, and eventually it will end up hurting the higher level teams because there will be very few places available on entry level teams to compete in. IMO, 4.2 was designed for blocking or tumbling stagnant kids, but we all know it is harder to hit those level 4 stunts.

This is a video thread so, I'll leave it at that.

Well....she was also on a 4.2 ;-)

Edited to add: I trust the coaches to do what's best for the children THEY are coaching. I am not a coach. If I have a concern or question about my CP's training, I have NO issue with bringing that up to the coaches. If you've had issues with coaches at your gym doing this, I'm sorry. That's probably the best indication it's time to find a new gym.

 

[catlady]

Well....she was also on a 4.2 ;-)

Edited to add: I trust the coaches to do what's best for the children THEY are coaching. I am not a coach. If I have a concern or question about my CP's training, I have NO issue with bringing that up to the coaches. If you've had issues with coaches at your gym doing this, I'm sorry. That's probably the best indication it's time to find a new gym.

The fact they had, and she was put on 4.2 made my point, that is where a 13 year, once R5 athlete belonged and coaches know it, not a Sr. 2. I never said, nor do I have an issue with our gym or coaches, they don't put their blocking high level kids on level 1 and 2, those are truly reserved for beginner stunters, jumpers, and tumblers. "Trusting" coaches to put our kids on the appropriate levels isn't stopping the trend, I hope Varsity will.

 

[Boughetto]

"Trusting" coaches to put our kids on the appropriate levels isn't stopping the trend, I hope Varsity will.

Not gonna happen. Varsity only cares about their bottom line $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[FamousMatty]

The fact they had, and she was put on 4.2 made my point, that is where a 13 year, once R5 athlete belonged and coaches know it, not a Sr. 2. I never said, nor do I have an issue with our gym or coaches, they don't put their blocking high level kids on level 1 and 2, those are truly reserved for beginner stunters, jumpers, and tumblers. "Trusting" coaches to put our kids on the appropriate levels isn't stopping the trend, I hope Varsity will.

I am one of the coaches for this team. We have not had a 4.2 team at our location since 2013. The athlete that sparked this convo has been on my teams for years. She was a flyer on my 4.2 for two seasons and had previously been on youth 2. She did level up from there and at one point was throwing jumps to back and made our R5 team as a base. @FamUsM0m can correct me here but I believe this was the only level 5 skill being thrown at the time and this was her first year attempting to base. She took some time off to focus on school and do school cheer. When she came back she was throwing level 3 skills with confidence and she was as such placed on my senior 3 team. A time came where a fill in was needed for my senior 2 team and because I knew this athlete well I asked her to fill in and she ended up being a part of the team when they earned a paid bid. Athletes change, grow, and lose and gain skills. So yes us coaches do know what we are doing, and it's making the best teams possible that offer all athletes the best opportunities to feel confident in the skill sets they need to perform.

 

[FamUsM0m]

I am one of the coaches for this team. We have not had a 4.2 team at our location since 2013. The athlete that sparked this convo has been on my teams for years. She was a flyer on my 4.2 for two seasons and had previously been on youth 2. She did level up from there and at one point was throwing jumps to back and made our R5 team as a base. @FamUsM0m can correct me here but I believe this was the only level 5 skill being thrown at the time and this was her first year attempting to base. She took some time off to focus on school and do school cheer. When she came back she was throwing level 3 skills with confidence and she was as such placed on my senior 3 team. A time came where a fill in was needed for my senior 2 team and because I knew this athlete well I asked her to fill in and she ended up being a part of the team when they earned a paid bid. Athletes change, grow, and lose and gain skills. So yes us coaches do know what we are doing, and it's making the best teams possible that offer all athletes the best opportunities to feel confident in the skill sets they need to perform.

She also had her full for about a year but lost interest in throwing it due to fear/pain. Then followed losing the other skills. Couldn't have asked for better coaches honestly. <3

 

[catlady]

I am one of the coaches for this team. We have not had a 4.2 team at our location since 2013. The athlete that sparked this convo has been on my teams for years. She was a flyer on my 4.2 for two seasons and had previously been on youth 2. She did level up from there and at one point was throwing jumps to back and made our R5 team as a base. @FamUsM0m can correct me here but I believe this was the only level 5 skill being thrown at the time and this was her first year attempting to base. She took some time off to focus on school and do school cheer. When she came back she was throwing level 3 skills with confidence and she was as such placed on my senior 3 team. A time came where a fill in was needed for my senior 2 team and because I knew this athlete well I asked her to fill in and she ended up being a part of the team when they earned a paid bid. Athletes change, grow, and lose and gain skills. So yes us coaches do know what we are doing, and it's making the best teams possible that offer all athletes the best opportunities to feel confident in the skill sets they need to perform.

Congrats to you on your bronze placement. However, that does not change my opinion on what is happening in level 1 and 2. I agree, wholeheartedly, coaches know what they are doing. They are creating competitive teams, but I don't agree with how it is being done. It only took a few gyms to start putting their blocking, injured, and newly positioned athletes on level 1 and 2 to create this strategy and level 1 and 2 look nothing like what they were six years ago when we started AS. Heck they don't look anything like they looked three years ago. There is a body type of a new cheerleader and you don't see them anymore. Literally a team full of grandma jumps are now at hip level and above, Dorito scorps are now needles. Both of my kids started AS at age 14 with no skills, and based on what I'm seeing now with what the trend is, in a few years there will not be a place for those kids. IMO, that's sad.

 

[123jump4!]

Congrats to you on your bronze placement. However, that does not change my opinion on what is happening in level 1 and 2. I agree, wholeheartedly, coaches know what they are doing. They are creating competitive teams, but I don't agree with how it is being done. It only took a few gyms to start putting their blocking, injured, and newly positioned athletes on level 1 and 2 to create this strategy and level 1 and 2 look nothing like what they were six years ago when we started AS. Heck they don't look anything like they looked three years ago. There is a body type of a new cheerleader and you don't see them anymore. Literally a team full of grandma jumps are now at hip level and above, Dorito scorps are now needles. Both of my kids started AS at age 14 with no skills, and based on what I'm seeing now with what the trend is, in a few years there will not be a place for those kids. IMO, that's sad.

I agree with you in general but for this specific case it sounds "legit". She has level 3 skills and needed to fill in on a level 2 team. Coaches don't always have someone from the same level to ask. Happened on my CP's team too.

We've had discussion on sandbagging on other threads, I was following it with interest. Something should be done to limit it.

 

[FamUsM0m]

Congrats to you on your bronze placement. However, that does not change my opinion on what is happening in level 1 and 2. I agree, wholeheartedly, coaches know what they are doing. They are creating competitive teams, but I don't agree with how it is being done. It only took a few gyms to start putting their blocking, injured, and newly positioned athletes on level 1 and 2 to create this strategy and level 1 and 2 look nothing like what they were six years ago when we started AS. Heck they don't look anything like they looked three years ago. There is a body type of a new cheerleader and you don't see them anymore. Literally a team full of grandma jumps are now at hip level and above, Dorito scorps are now needles. Both of my kids started AS at age 14 with no skills, and based on what I'm seeing now with what the trend is, in a few years there will not be a place for those kids. IMO, that's sad.

In all fairness, level 5 teams don't look like they did 6 years ago. They also don't look anything like they did 2 years ago for that matter. What you're seeing, is called progression and innovation. Choreographers (both stunt and routine) have become more and more creative with how to use their athlete's skills to their advantage REGARDLESS of the level. What you're seeing are level 2 and 3 kids looking up to these level 5 kids and saying "I don't care if I'm level 2, I can perform like I'm level 5" so they stretch, work on jumps, practice their motions and perfect their tumbling. That's why you don't see grandma jump, bent knees in tumbling, needles and extreme flexibility. I can assure you, the majority of the lower level teams are not stacked with level 4 and 5 kids, they're stacked with determined athletes who WANT to do better, so they practice more. They go to stretch classes, stretch at home, work on jumps in their free time, watch tv in the splits, etc. It's definitely more difficult for those who start late (after age 12), but it's not impossible to progress to the level of those who have been doing it since they were 5. Don't fault those who have worked their butts off because yours can't keep up.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I will not apologize for my child's (or any child's for that matter) progression and other's lack thereof. They have to want it, not the parent.

 

[catlady]

In all fairness, level 5 teams don't look like they did 6 years ago. They also don't look anything like they did 2 years ago for that matter. What you're seeing, is called progression and innovation. Choreographers (both stunt and routine) have become more and more creative with how to use their athlete's skills to their advantage REGARDLESS of the level. What you're seeing are level 2 and 3 kids looking up to these level 5 kids and saying "I don't care if I'm level 2, I can perform like I'm level 5" so they stretch, work on jumps, practice their motions and perfect their tumbling. That's why you don't see grandma jump, bent knees in tumbling, needles and extreme flexibility. I can assure you, the majority of the lower level teams are not stacked with level 4 and 5 kids, they're stacked with determined athletes who WANT to do better, so they practice more. They go to stretch classes, stretch at home, work on jumps in their free time, watch tv in the splits, etc. It's definitely more difficult for those who start late (after age 12), but it's not impossible to progress to the level of those who have been doing it since they were 5. Don't fault those who have worked their butts off because yours can't keep up.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I will not apologize for my child's (or any child's for that matter) progression and other's lack thereof. They have to want it, not the parent.

One, it doesn't sound harsh, it sounds unrealistic, and you don't have to apologize, again you did not place your 13 year once level R5 athlete on a level 2 team. Two, no one is going to fault any child that has worked their butts off to improve themselves. Three, the same level 5 teams that were successful six years ago, are still successful today, so "progression and innovation" has not made any major changes in that level.

We all know this conversation isn't about "progression and innovation." This is about gyms having to make the decision to cut out true beginner athletes to stay competitive because of loopholes that don't prevent gyms from putting much more experienced level athletes on lower level teams right out of the gate. A level 1 or 2 athlete should never have to make room for, or compete against, blocking (or never blocked in their life) higher level multi year athletes. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I won't apologize for wanting kids to have fair competition.

 

[tealandgold]

One, it doesn't sound harsh, it sounds unrealistic, and you don't have to apologize, again you did not place your 13 year once level R5 athlete on a level 2 team. Two, no one is going to fault any child that has worked their butts off to improve themselves. Three, the same level 5 teams that were successful six years ago, are still successful today, so "progression and innovation" has not made any major changes in that level.

We all know this conversation isn't about "progression and innovation." This is about gyms having to make the decision to cut out true beginner athletes to stay competitive because of loopholes that don't prevent gyms from putting much more experienced level athletes on lower level teams right out of the gate. A level 1 or 2 athlete should never have to make room for, or compete against, blocking (or never blocked in their life) higher level multi year athletes. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I won't apologize for wanting kids to have fair competition.

I agree with the excessive sandbagging, but I don't see it at all in this case. She currently has level 3 tumbling skills, so a level 2/3 seems quite appropriate for her current skill level. She may have landed her full a few years ago, but if she no longer has it, it's not going to be of much help on a level 4 or 5 for THIS year!

 

[FamousMatty]

In the same turn, while placing that blocking athlete on a lower level team because that's the tumbling they have takes a spot from a beginner, placing them on a higher level team when they don't have the skills currently takes that spot away from an athlete who does and thus a higher level athlete still remains on a team they may be more qualified for in either scenario.

 

[nicolee]

This is clearly not a case of sandbagging, if the athlete currently has level 2–3 skills. If she currently had level 5 skills, it would be a different issue.

Just because a kid was once level 5 does not make it sandbagging. Are we to suggest that leveling down would never be appropriate, even if the skills fit? Doesn't that seem a little arbitrary?

 

[catlady]

In the same turn, while placing that blocking athlete on a lower level team because that's the tumbling they have takes a spot from a beginner, placing them on a higher level team when they don't have the skills currently takes that spot away from an athlete who does and thus a higher level athlete still remains on a team they may be more qualified for in either scenario.

This is clearly not a case of sandbagging, if the athlete currently has level 2–3 skills. If she currently had level 5 skills, it would be a different issue.

Just because a kid was once level 5 does not make it sandbagging. Are we to suggest that leveling down would never be appropriate, even if the skills fit? Doesn't that seem a little arbitrary?

Level R5 to level 2 isn't leveling down, 13 years experience up to R5 is not level 1 or 2. If the score sheet decides one blocking athlete is enough to make that much of a difference to a high level team, then that same athlete is making the same impact on a lower level in reverse. The score sheet is not all about tumbling, and again, 4.2 was designed specifically with these athletes in mind. Level 1 and 2 should not become the place for "put out to pasture" multi year high level athletes. Beginner athletes need a place to go, and gym owners should want them to have a place to go without having to go head to head with multi year high level athletes. If a coach needs a place for a higher level blocking athlete(s) then they should make a 4.2 team, if they don't have enough athletes for a 4.2 then that's unfortunate. One athlete does make a difference or gyms wouldn't be removing them from teams when they no longer have a skill. I'm having a hard time believing I have to convince anyone that every athlete matters and makes an impact on a team.

 

[nicolee]

Level R5 to level 2 isn't leveling down, 13 years experience up to R5 is not level 1 or 2. If the score sheet decides one blocking athlete is enough to make that much of a difference to a high level team, then that same athlete is making the same impact on a lower level in reverse. The score sheet is not all about tumbling, and again, 4.2 was designed specifically with these athletes in mind. Level 1 and 2 should not become the place for "put out to pasture" multi year high level athletes. Beginner athletes need a place to go, and gym owners should want them to have a place to go without having to go head to head with multi year high level athletes. If a coach needs a place for a higher level blocking athlete(s) then they should make a 4.2 team, if they don't have enough athletes for a 4.2 then that's unfortunate. One athlete does make a difference or gyms wouldn't be removing them from teams when they no longer have a skill. I'm having a hard time believing I have to convince anyone that every athlete matters and makes an impact on a team.

With respect, I don't much appreciate your insinuation that the rest of us don't understand that 'every athlete matters', nor that if there's no level 4.2, then that's just 'unfortunate'.

For me, it's as simple as a coach, who knows the athletes skill well (unlike us here at our computers), matching them with the correct level.

 

[quitthedrama]

@catlady You're way off base with your posts.